Easy way to monitor burner run times?

Weezbo

head down to salvation army get some cheap electric clock,set it on 12 o clock, wire it into the burner come back next day same time. there it is. thats how many hours it was running *~/:)

GW

Easy way to monitor burner run times?

wall dudes,

Is there an easy way to monitor burner run times? I have this apartment complex that may be looking at a boiler swap. I'm simply amazed at how large the existing unit is. Obviously I'll bring my 5 year old Dell lap top over and bang out a quick heat loss to compare notes, but I'm wondering if we can get a feel for how long (or short) the cycles are on a zero* morning.

Thanks!

Gary

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Brad White_23

Data Loggers

I have used Onset Computer data loggers for years. ME might have a few also

Not costly and yet very effective. You can set them up for events (on-off times), motor run times, temperatures over time, lots of options.

http://onsetcomputer.com/

Another thing you might try (I have it on my Honeywell thermostat) is a run-time feature. Not sure how to jury-rig that into the system but I find it both handy and frightening.

EBEBRATT-Ed

a small 120 volt timer (hour meter) from graingers wired in parallel with the burner motor X nozzle size (@ 100psi) will give you the oil consumption. I used to use these when a customer had a suspected leaking underground tank and I would compare this to the stick readings.

Ed

Brad White_23

This is a great idea

and more to the point of run time and oil consumption. Won't give cycle times but that is incidental to overall fuel use.

GW

couldn't find it

do you know the part #? The ones I found were 700-800 or so. I could have my guys go over with the morning paper and watch it for an hour or so!

Thanks

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[Deleted User]

Articles...

http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=417
http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=421
http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=436

Article 2 is attached to the link below.

Enjoy, and learn!

ME

Kevin__Flynn

Weezbo

Ingenious, I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Kevin Flynn

Rodney Summers

these are 'kewl' for monitoring & control......

(little 'boiler brains' - i make 'em).

Weezbo

Sheesh .. You must live in an Upscale neighbourhood,

soot seeker *~/:) i neber neber seen onea those in our sally anns

Rodney Summers

sure beats having to stick the UG tank in cold weather...

as you can see, it's not totally wired yet, still testing the other functions... but the oil monitoring/cycle times/stats stuff is all good.

ss

[Deleted User]

And....

If'n you happen to be so unlucky as to have a 24 volts gas valve/relay you're trying to monitor, you can take a 120/24 volt transformer, wire it backwards, and the time clock will chart the same way.

Prior to the Reverend showing me how to do this, I never realized you could make 120 volts out of 24...

The only disadvantge to this methodology is that it doesn't show consumtion in "real time". Only cumulative run time for a given period of time, whic oif colsely monitored can be useful data (12 hour period, over night).

For long term profiling, which gives a better picture of energy usage, the method I describe in my articles is the cats pajamas.

ME

jp_2

wow

hey is that a telemecanique? I haven't seem them for 20 years!

what about allen bradley or seimens?

Paul Pollets

Burner run hour meter

Gary, I use the timers on most of our oil burners. Viessmann makes one for their burners and I've obtained standard run hour meters (110v) from Chris Rorke at Blueline Supply in Jackson Hole, WY. The hour run meter will also allow a tech to determine maintainence schedules. We like to retune the burner, clean the boiler and change the oil filter every 2000hrs.

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Uni R

Watts Up Pro

If anything is 110v and active only with the burner you could use one of
these and graph the run time intervals on a PC. It's designed for regular plugs but that is easy enough to work around.

GW

Paul

do you have a phone # I can't find them on search

Gary

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Rodney Summers

yup, telemecanique..

yup, telemecanique makes the box - we do the software.

AB & Siemens have similar 'platforms' but this one had better features for my purposes.

now working on a bigger (web-based) & smaller (cheaper) version of this one.


ss

Boiler Guy

I use

Omron timers and cycle counters. They are available in numerous configurations and usually will work between 18 and 240 volts. I like them because they are small - 1" x 1.5" x 2" deep, lite, easy to read and reset, can be triple ganged in a standard electrical box, quad ganged in a 4 x 4 box for portability and are relatively inexpensive.

Paul Pollets

Blueline Supply #

(307) 733-3953. Chris may be in New Zealand at the moment, but there should be someone to help...

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Boiler Guy

Those are EXCELLENT articles Mark

It is nice to know someone else who does real time energy analisis in the field.

gasfolk

Mark Eatherton...

Wow! Outstanding articles.

If you have a book of similar practical wisdom, where can I buy it?

gf

soot_seeker_5

the problem with hour meters...

do keep in mind that if you use a simple hour meter to track usage/gallonage and you want real accuracy, that your numbers can grow inaccurate over time if the burner uses a pre & post purge control. the hour meter in parallel with the motor arrangement doesn't know that the oil valve is not open during the first 15 seconds (pre-purge)& very possibly the last 2 minutes (post-purge) of every cycle. if you conservatively figure that the burner may cycle even only 3 times an hour - those purge times easily add up to 2.5+ gal/day or 75 gal/month with a 1 gph nozzle. you could hook-up an event counter in parallel with the elapsed time meter & that would help, but would require a little math to get it right. you could try to hook-up the hour meter to the oil valve rather than the motor but experience has shown that the parallel loading often makes the valve stutter & kick off the control. soooooooo, you could electrically 'insulate' the valve signal from the hour meter by putting a dpst relay between the control valve power-on (120v) and the valve and have the other pole run the hour meter - this would work as long as the relay current draw and back emf spike doesn't exceed what the control can handle - 'course that involves a little extra wiring.

but hey, no pain no gain.

ss

ron v

control

soot seeker i want one how can i get it.

Rodney Summers

getting control...

hi ron,

you can reach me at info@boilerbrain.com

(sorry no website yet).

just a note here.

the current version of the software is designed to track oil usage on a boiler with a *separately fired* hot water heater. if the system is only a tankless, then it probably doesn't matter, but if it's an indirect tank and you want to track HW gals usage separately, then we'd have to alter a few things - which is probably fine as long as it has priority & there's access to that (120v) circ signal. at present, the oil usage monitoring & run time/cycle length 'stuff' is good. (the unit even holds the data after a power outage). the next thing i've been exploring is the possible addition of some circulation control features (in the little memory space remaining). but if the main interest is really more so for the gallonage/cycle length function, then i may just use the remaining space to enhance or add to the current stats or try to store some additional information past the last 24 hours & make that a finished version. you can tell me what you'd like to see & i will try to accommodate.

ss

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys...

And thanks to Dan for getting me the writing job.

These things I do, I do for you, the learning public.

Pay it forward.

ME

[Deleted User]

Book in the works....

Actually have numerous books in the works. Was hoping to take an semester of from the teaching grid iron to finish the tasks, but lo and behold, I met quorum at the last moment...

Upward and onward, and eventually, a book.

THanks for the kudos GF.

Pay it forward.

ME

Bob Vennerbeck

affordble run time hourmeters

I have a handful of Redington LCD hourmeters - purchased from Allied Electronics - I like them a lot because they can be powered anywhere from 10vDC to 277vAC - I didn't believe it myself but it works. Downside is no reset function, and readout is powered by lithium? battery potted into the device - they estimate a 7 year lifetime then you have to toss it. Made to be installed in a panel (1-3/4" holesaw) and has two 1/4" male quick connect blades sticking out of the potting material in the back.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=620-0052&SEARCH=&ID=1274&MPN=3311-1000&DESC=3311-1000

Note that the distributors web page says 32-277vAV, but when you check with Redington themselves the specs are indeed 10-277v AC or DC.

About $16 each

Happy timing!

Vbob