near boiler piping (steam)

Kirk Shriver

I think you answered your own question. Please get Dan's book, "The Lost Art ..." and you will get everything you will ever need to know.

Kirk Shriver

near boiler piping (steam)

Just had a new Utica boiler (187k btu) installed in Mom's house. Got rid of copper pipes from 19 year old Burnham unit. Replaced all vents with the good ones like Dan's book said. I've skimmed it and cleaned it about 25 times and the water is clean. BUT, I still have minor surging. I read the fine print on the boiler installation instructions and another place in Dan's book and found that the instructions call for two and a half inch pipe (Dan says 3" nearly always works very well) while my contractor installed 2" . I think this is the source of the surging; he doesn't. The system is heating the house well but it is too soon to know if the heating bills are high. I have occational little bangs in the pipes which Mom doesn't notice. We have not had any very cold weather yet to test the system. The contractor is already fully paid but he is a decent guy who I believe will do what's right. I don't wish to make "better" be the enemy of the "good". The surging seems not to be harming anything and IF the system is running efficiently and continues to heat the house well I will be satisfied to leave things as they are. I eagerly seek more opinions.

clammy

look at the instruction

Wheather he's a good guy or not and being paided in full i don't believe that if he had to re pipe it he'd do it for free ?Check the manafactors suggested near boiler piping is the header sized to or larger then shown if not your getting higher velocity steam out of the boiler and wetter steam in the mains .Not even looking at 187 mbtu in it would have been 2 riser out of the boiler into a minimun of 2 1/2 header depending upon the size of the existing mains .Sorry peace and good luck clammy

Rodney Summers

I can't find their 187,000 BTU boiler in their literature, but from what I did find, it appears that the header on a Utica that big should have been piped with a 2-1/2" header.

If the installation book (which should be on Utica's site on-line) does specify a 2-1/2" header, you should demand the installer repipe the boiler properly. Sorry to hear that you've already paid him.

It's your fuel...

Long Beach Ed

EBEBRATT-Ed

a lot of contractors don't use pipe larger than 2" because it requires more labor and more equipment. The run of the mill pipe machine will only do 2" max.

That being said if the manufacturers literature call for it to be larger than it should be changed.And you should insist on it-who pays? thats up to you-split the bill if you want. Surging can cause all sorts of problems-some may show up in the future-then what will you do????????

Ed

Steamhead (in transit)

Is that the PEG-187?

You definitely need proper pipe sizes on one of these, and the piping instructions do call for 2-1/2 inch.

From what I understand, Utica (and Columbia, who sells a similar unit) have made quite a few changes to their piping diagrams over the years. I've seen some older installations that clearly didn't look right, but they matched the diagrams in the old instruction manuals. Maybe your installer has been using these for years and hasn't looked at the manual in a long time.

The pipe threader limitation should not be a factor, since the header can be made up of pre-cut nipples and the needed fittings.

I like to use drop headers on these boilers, they go together much faster and produce dryer steam. Here's a Columbia I did last spring. We didn't have to cut and thread anything when building the header- it was all nipples. The header direction is reversed from the usual for this boiler because of where the steam mains were. Also this is a smaller unit than yours so the header is all 2-inch.

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Campo

drop header

This got me thinking. If the boiler calls for 2.5" pipe in order to make dry steam, can you get around this by using a drop header and 2" pipe? Just curious.

Campo

thfurnitureguy_4

Correct me if I am wrong, but the one size larger pipe rule for the header, is to lower the velocity of the steam inside the header. This will prevent water in droplet form from being blown up into the mains.

Rodney Summers

Lots of Variables Here...

Both exercises will help remove water from the steam. The larger header slows down the steam permitting the water to fall from it.

The drop header raises the distance the water must travel and adds the turns in the pipe which also separate the water.

But only one exercise will protect the boiler's warranty, and that is piping the boiler to the maker's specifications. Anything other than that just gives the manufacturer an excuse to deny a claim.

Drop header or not, the pipe must be sized to the manufacturer's specifications.

Long Beach Ed

Boilerpro_3

Not a good idea

If the pipe is too small exiting the boiler it can cause excessive velocity at the exit of the boiler. This can cause the waterline in the boiler to tilt, so some sections will dry fire while others will be overfilled. With steam, bigger is better, pipingwise.

Boilerpro

Joe Hoff

correct piping of water feeder at top of Harford Loop

can a water feeder be piped into the top of the Hartford Loop.

I am experiencing hammering @ start up. The feeder comes on and off (McDonald Miller 100A ). The water seems to quickly disapear from the site glass.
Is the fact that the cold make up water mixes with the steam a possible hammer culprit.
Thanks for your input

Kirk Shriver

I don't know anything about drop headers, how they work, or why one would choose to use one. I didn't find any reference in "The Lost Art..." so could you tell me more or tell me where to look.