Silicone Sucks

Plumdog_2

The new Lotus Ellisse automobile is made of aluminum box sections that are glued together to form the unibody and suspension attatchment points.

ScottMP

What is it with contractors and silicone

Let me just say this from the start ... ITS A SEALANT.

We have a cusotmer with an old 1920 era marble top in a half bath. The bowl was broken and we got a new replacement that fit. The support brackets don't line up and are stripped anyway.

I had the customer call a marble company and they won't drill it for new support brackets. They say it will crack. " Just have your plumber use silicone, its what we use ".

I told her it WON'T hold. I call the company, in front of her. The guy says its all we use. " Those brackets are just to hold it while the silicone cures".

We do it.... We wait 48 Hours... we take the bracket off....

I got the call last night ... two hours after we take it off and tell the customer we'll be down tomorrow to hook up the drain. " The SINK is on the FLOOR "..

AAHHAGAGAGAGGGAGA.....

Now we'll try epoxy, which is what I wanted to do in the first place.

Silicone my ....

Sorry for the Plumbing rant.

Scott

PS: This is a half bath that froze last winter and we were told shut-off we don't use it anyway. NOW they have a party this weekend and it HAS to be done. I tried to tell her, this is 1920's plumbing, This is NOT an off the shelf solution. We 've got faucets that are twenty years old and you can't get parts.... 1920 !!!! MY DAD was a KID.

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Michael_6

silicone

It's not nearly as frustrating as people actually believing its a good heat transfer medium.

Michal

ever try to

remove a sink strainer, only to find some one siliconed it to the sink instead of using plumbers putty. try removing it and not damaging the porcelin. IMOH silicone is good for hiding the little gap between 2 pieces of corner molding, LOL

Mad Dog_2

Feel you pain scott

That's why sometimes you just have to stand your ground and say NO!, we won't do things that we know will come back to haunt us, sorry. Liquid nails is much better at bonding or two part plumbers epoxy. I know, I always regret when I give in and "try" to "worK" with people's ideas. Then it always comes back to you: " we'll your the professional, why did you do it in the first place. Another lesson learned. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

I hear ya Michal....

Before I touch ANTHING old, I now read them the riot act...otherwise, you will expected to fix evereything connected to it. Mad Dog

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Dale

Problem I have

My usual problem is to remind the techs that RTV means "room temp vulcanizing". Meaning it will stay liquid, soft and have little strength if it doesn't get air. The directions are good, "allow both sides to get tacky before assembly" If you don't no strength. Also, the LESS thickness you use on each side the better. And, if done correctly and you want to take something delicate apart later you must spray one side with pam. Holds water fine but comes apart easy. Engine rebuilder in my area say most of the teardown causes are little balls of silicone in the oil pickup.

leo g_13

Had an undermount

kitchen sink years ago. Was told that yes there wouls be 3/4 ply all around, no problem hooking up. asked the contractor 3 times! same reply.

of course comes time to install, no ply anywhere close. "just use silicone is what the granite guy said."

"nope, i told you plywood or someone else can do it."

well, he did it hisself, and of course it dropped in a matter of days, plumbing and all! finaly his partner and i came up with a solution.

like mad dawg says, sometimes you just gotta say no!

Leo G

PS - one of the last plumbing jobs we did, the counter guys actually installed both the 2-bowl sink and the island sink. and yes they used epoxy! unbelievable how sturdy that method is!

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Epoxy can be a bit unyielding--great for holding in threaded inserts that come with undermount sinks--but if you use to attach the bowl itself you might have expansion/contraction problems.

Might I suggest a really good adhesive caulking? The goofy rear exit toilet I used in my master bath had no visible means for attaching to the floor. Used a good adhesive caulk and after standing on the thing and shifting my weight from side-to-side must say it's there to stay.

M. Jarchow

guility as charged

Scott, our local marble or granite person told us this several years ago the same thing, that he would not drill into his product that it could crack it. Silicone was his answer? I have to admit that we have both ss and china under mounts that are going on 10years and still holding with extra deep ss w/disposals. I do always clean under neath with alcohol. Atleast one of our plumbing fixture supplier reccomended it. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but have not had any problems at all. Usually install on friday and leave all weekend. Barclamp through the p/o? I agree it does say sealant not adhesive?

hr

Red Head makes an amazing

two part epoxy. I have used it to anchor boilers to concrete block walls!

For block walls you drill a hole and insert a small screen looking tube. Inject the epoxy into it an insert a threaded rod. Incrediably strong.

I'll bet it would glue a sink to just about anything. Hardens in minutes but needs overnight to fully cure.

I have a small china lav fastened to the bottom of my concrete top with silicone adhesive.

hot rod

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joeoilman

go to your local boat-us or west marine. get fast cure 5200. you'll pull the wall down before it separates.

ScottMP

I wonder

if it was the humidity ?

After hearing that it can be done. I wonder if that was the problem. We let it dry 48 hours, but maybe due to the high humidty lately it was'nt enough.

What makes it really wierd is that I got a call from a customer last night would said here undernount sink just fell off. It was installed ( not by us ) three years ago and just let go. Coincedence ? Maybe not.

I still would rather have shields installed. I mean why do the companys provide them

Scott

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hr

Where did the bond fail?

did it not adhere to the counter? Or did it stick to both surfaces and seperate in the middle of the 'cone?

Glass installers have heavy duty adhesives for gluing mirrors to walls and ceilings.

Aircraft wings are glued together. Give Burt Rutan a call He knows adhesives.

hot rod

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Bob Harper

different types of RTV silicones

There are tons of different types of RTV silicones. The two main categories are acid cure and neutral cure. Not always but in general, acid cure "caulks" have better adhesive properties when applied thinly and per mfr. They are poor at filling large gaps often leaving uncured blobs even after a yr or more. They are rather strong adhesives when used properly. We adhere marble to walls around mantels. If you ever have to remove a facing that got silicone btw the marble and metal, you'll destroy the marble getting it off. Acid cure will attack galvanized metal, aluminum, copper, etc.
Neurtal cure RTVs are generally better at gap filling with poor adhesive properties. However, since they don't form acetic acid during cure, they don't cause corrosion the way acid cure ones will. These are also your typical high temp reds and special application ones such as marine use.
Someone mentioned marine adhesives. This is a secret source of really cool super quality products. You don't want to be out on the ocean with cheap goop the the Big Orange Depot, do you? Therefore, expect to pay for the good stuff. Polyurethanes and such are well worth their price.
HTH

mr ed

good stuff

As far as epoxy products go, Hot Rod has nailed it. The Redhead is awesome. I believe it is intended for mounting foundation bolts to the block fondation. Super strong! - Mr Ed

Al Corelli

Marine-tex.

Indestructible.

Red Head is as good as has been mentioned.

grindog_2

epoxy

we use to use the stuff by red head, hilti makes one and so does rawl.We use it instead of drop in anchors when hanging large diameter pipe. If this stuff can hold up a piece of 48" ductile iron i am sure it will hold a sink.