I love old Paul Harvey, but

jeff_51

ya got to build dams to get Hydro and that might upset the fish, and wind genies kill birds and ocean wave generators are unsightly. Ya ever notice how the people who cry for clean renewable energy are always the people who end up shutting it down? We finally got our little lite rail to nowhere that the greens wanted so bad (at a cost of a billion dollars by the way) and who was out there squacking about the trees that had to be cut down to build the thing, but the greens. No matter what ya do, it's wrong.

Matt Clina

Hydrogen Powered Big Rigs

Did anybody happen to catch Paul Harvey today? To paraphrase one of his "news" stories:

"Did you know that there are (137?) big rigs running all over the highways of our fine country with nothing but hydrogen in their fuel tanks? And they are making their own hydrogen as they drive!!! The truck's alternator is powering the electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from water!!!! Each of these rigs is saving $700 per month in fuel."

He makes it sound like someone has invented the perpetual motion big rig.

I just thought it was amusing. Now where did I put that bottle of Ocular Nutrition? Oh, there it is behind my Bose Wave Radio.

Unknown

that actually works really well. apparently the tremendous amount of force generated when those suckers brake can create quite a bit of power.

Dave Yates (PAH)

any truth

to this story? A link perhaps???

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Matt Clina

Re-Broadcast

I'm pretty sure you can listen to Paul Harvey's broadcasts at his web site:

http://www.paulharvey.com

I'm at work, so I don't want to try it right now.

beeper

And now for the story behind the story, page two. True Story

Dave Yates (PAH)

tough to swallow

given that I've only read about one single hydrogen-only car in CA where the state won't grant a license to the filling station because of concerns about hydrogen (unfounded IMHO) and that the owners must go to the manufacturer to fill-er-up, I'm not ready to believe there's a fleet of big rigs galavanting about the US making their own hydrogen "on-the-fly" for stand-alone fuel usage.

At the Solar Decathlon, there was one entry making their own hydrogen to utilize at night via a fuel-cell (instead of a battery system for night energy) & they had to obtain a Federal permit due to the proximity of their hydrogen system and the government buildings.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Hydrogen is Exciting Stuff

Storing it is pretty difficult, finding leaks is dangerous, and the range of mixtures across which it is flammable/explosive is downright interesting.

I'd like to think that a battery bank with AGM lead acid, NiMH, or LiON batteries with a good charge controller could achieve a much higher net efficiency than a fuel cell. What was their H₂ and back conversion efficiency?

Unknown

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,69529,00.html?tw=rss.TEK

Not a ton of detail, but it's interesting.

The Wire Nut

hyperbole...

Well, the Wired article says that they inject a small amount of hydrogen into the air intake. Much different then "running around with nothing but hydrogen in their fuel tanks.." Which in all fairness to the OldPH, may just be a paraphrase? But, if not, doesn't it make you question all these "talk radio pundits"? Which should start a really nice set of flames! Ken?

Also, they seem to be running around Canadian highways, but that may be my own paraphrasing...

!!!

Alex

Dave Yates (PAH)

so

they're huffing hydrogen?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jeff_51

don't know about Paul\"s story but

they do run alot of hydrogen powered vehicles in Iceland. Course they have a real cheap source of power for generating electricity. Steam generated from all of the volcanic action on their littl island. That's the thing nobody deals with when they talk about nice clean hydrogen..It takes a heck of alot of electricity to produce hydrogen, and where is that going to come from?????

[Deleted User]

The sun...

or ocean waves, or wind power, or gravity (hydro). All renewable resources.

ME

[Deleted User]

The MAJOR downfall of hydrogen power for transportation...

was pointed out to me by Richard Trethewey.

"If the only byproduct of hydrogen consumption is water, what's going to happen during the winter if all the cars driving on the road are spitting water out of their tail pipes? And they thought that leaks in the Big Dig were bad..."

It is NOT a cure all or fix all, just another potential alterntaive.

ME

Dave Yates (PAH)

If not produced via solar....

it's a net-negative energy. Birds killed via wind mills - gimme a break.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

[Deleted User]

Birds killed by telephone communications AND wind farms...

http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/EandE/Web_sites/98-9/offshore/wind/wintr.htm

Birds and Wind Turbines
It was decided to build the a turbine offshore from Nogersund in Sweden specifically because it is in the centre of a migration path used twice a year by millions of birds. In spring migrating birds pass the site in groups, flying SW to NE and at about 20 to 30m above sea level. Amongst other studies which were carried out at the time, one study involved counting the number of birds during spring migration, flying NE past the site, and their approximate distance from the turbine. This was done in 1990 and 1991. The complete study into the effect of offshore wind turbines on birds lasted 5 years and ended in 1995. It concludes that "breeding birds and resting birds are too few in the area to make a statistically valid test" but that "migratory birds try to avoid the plant by flying further out from the coast line over the sea. Thus within a distance of 500m from the plant (placed 250m out from the coast line) the number of birds were reduced by almost 50% after erection of the plant".

The conclusion of the RSPB after studying the effects of wind turbines is that the impact on birds is "similar to that of many structures". They also refer to studies which show that numbers of birds killed per kilometre of windfarm are similar to those killed per kilometre of road. Birds local to a wind farm appear to recognise its existence and avoid it although care should be taken not to site a farm on a sensitive migration route.

From these and other studies it is possible to conclude that the effect of wind turbines on birds is relatively minor, however care should be taken to ensure that sensitive locations are avoided and that further studies should be commissioned for specific projects if necessary and on the advice of respected ornithologists..

jeff_51

I didn't mean to imply that it was actually happening

but there were protests at wind farms in oregon, california and washinton state last year by (concerned) persons. The local peta chapters were some of those involved. I don't know that peta at the national level was, also one of those national animal defense duhicky's was ( I can't keep any of them straight, actually, I don't want to)

[Deleted User]

No problem...

I just happened to google it and came up with that info. Small price to pay if you ask me.

P.E.T.A., Doesn't that stand for People Eating Tasty Animals???

ME

Plumdog_2

Hey, if God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldna made em outta meat.

Dave Yates (PAH)

ME

Yes - on Thursday, I'll be doing my part to lower the risk of bird flue(G).

PETA protesting wind farms. What's next, The ACLU suing the uber-left-wing anything? Let them huff hydrogen!

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"