American heating mind set?

Maine Doug_21

Many who are in the market for or in need of a new boiler/heating system are really missing something. A modern system that provides high comfort levels enables one to party naked even when the weather is minus ten degrees outside. Makes Maine winters take on a different perspective.
There must be a whole new angle on advertising possiblities here.



>>>>"Hey baby! I got a new boiler! let's party naked!!!" ?????<<<<<

Bill Nye_2

Do we learn from

Do we learn from our parents? Why is every one so cheap when it comes to heat? Leave the 35 yr old beast in the basement alone. Don't turn up the t-stat , stumble around in your cold house when you can see your breath.

New cars, cell phones , computers, any number of electrical gadgets. People will go into debt for may years to fund a vacation, build a deck that gets used once or twice per summer, whirpool tub that may get used once or twice. Butno, I won't spend a dime on that boiler. I won't upgrade, radiant costs too much, etc. etc.

The truth is, if you replaced that 40yr old monster or insulated your home and bought good quality equipment the money you might save in the long run, not to mention the peace of mind, you could afford the vacation or toy or two on the fuel savings.

I set up a new boiler today. The guy did it himself with help and $aved. The boiler is more than two times bigger than needed. Tankless coil. Used expansion tank and flow checks. At least it was neat.

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A.J.

Part Human Nature Part lack of information

I agree for the biggest part, my grandfather ( which started the buisness that I now run ) used to say that people cann't drive their new boiler around and show it off.Given the choice people will go for the new car. About five years ago a customer told me that he could not replace that 35 year old American standard oil boiler becuase they just didn't have the money. That spring he was driving a new Chrysler.
We need to get our professional message out which ever one it is the comfort of radiant,out door reset
fuel savings,or the newest generation of gas (condensing boilers.
With the higher fuel prices we will be paying from now on it only makes sense to run the most efficent equipment on the market.Initial cost can not be the only concern of the end user.

joel_19

Aj

He didn't replace the boiler and bought a Chrysler ? that's two bad choices....

[Deleted User]

Shaun Anderson

How about this.

I had a contractor that got told by the home owner to replace with brand "B" rather than the more eff. brand "A" to save money but yet drag the boiler through the garage past the Benz's sitting in the garage. Save money on heat and spend it elsewhere they feel. or how about spending thousands of dollars on their kitchen and penny pinching on their heating system. Don't get it.

TheFuture

Dirk Wright

Sex appeal

New boilers lack sex appeal. What you are going to tell your friends? "Hey baby! I got a new boiler! let's party naked!!!" ????? not hardly. whereas, a new slick car or a big fancy deck garners bragging rights. In America, it's all about sex appeal...

Shaun Anderson

With some of the jobs I see ........

Well worth bragging rights. The only bad thing is boiler rooms are getting smaller and smaller. Not enough room to really do some fancy fine work. The ones I see on the wall are well worth showing off. Alot nicer to look at than a furnace. Not to bash on hot air boys, much respect for what you do but I'd rather have a wall-mounted boiler satisfing all my heating needs. Lots to see and more to learn.

TheFuture

John Van Hoesen

Bigger Issue...

Hi Bill -

I realize that you were targeting professionals in the field and trying to find out how to convince us homeowners to spend the money on something that is FAR more important than a new car. The question you're asking begs a greater question or issue... which is, why are American's not preparing for a time when oil or gas aren't going to be the main source of heating? Why do take it for granted and why do we build such huge homes to heat, not recognizing that oil and gas prices are only going to continue rising (with a few dips here and there).

There was a post on here about energy conservation:
http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=31038&mc=5

which didn't quite take off. That's the root of the issue, if we didn't build huge houses to heat, drive cars that get pathetic gas mileage, leave lights on all over the house, intall above ground pools, saunas, etc... our demand for oil would be lower, our dependence would be lower, and we "might" just be able to put money into finding an alternative source when the tit dries up.

I don't mean to get on a soapbox. I'm not judging or complaining, in the sense that I own and drive a car (35mpg) burn oil to heat my house and I don't live off the grid. BUT, if the question is why don't people respect their heating systems, we need to look at how the society deals with energy as a whole. And the only way to do that is through economics.

I'm not sure if you guys do it, but if you calcuate the efficiency of the HO's boiler, then do the heat loss, then calculate how much oil they will burn. Now, do the same calculations with an efficent boiler, and just make those two numbers BOLD and illustrate that in 2-3 years or less, they'll make their money back. It's all in the psyche of our society, not the way you're marketing your boilers...

my two cents...
J~

Uni R

Sex appeal

Hey! At least boilers have a few fans. That's far better than insulation. Nobody gets excited about insulation. "Hey stranger, want to see my heatloss calcs and then take a peak behind the drywall?" hehe

Bill Nye_2

John

Exactly what I would have said if I was half as literate as you. Well said.

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Bill Nye_2

Fred

I don't think we have ever met. I am not ashamed to take a photo or two.

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[Deleted User]

[Deleted User]

Rich Lowenstein

> Do we learn from our parents? Why is every one so

> cheap when it comes to heat? Leave the 35 yr old

> beast in the basement alone. Don't turn up the

> t-stat , stumble around in your cold house when

> you can see your breath.

>

> New cars, cell

> phones , computers, any number of electrical

> gadgets. People will go into debt for may years

> to fund a vacation, build a deck that gets used

> once or twice per summer, whirpool tub that may

> get used once or twice. Butno, I won't spend a

> dime on that boiler. I won't upgrade, radiant

> costs too much, etc. etc.

>

> The truth is, if

> you replaced that 40yr old monster or insulated

> your home and bought good quality equipment the

> money you might save in the long run, not to

> mention the peace of mind, you could afford the

> vacation or toy or two on the fuel savings.

>

> I

> set up a new boiler today. The guy did it himself

> with help and $aved. The boiler is more than two

> times bigger than needed. Tankless coil. Used

> expansion tank and flow checks. At least it was

> neat.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 351&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Dirk Wright

They lied about the oil supply

That's why us Americans don't conserve. The USGS and the DOE both do not believe that the peak oil event is imminent, whereas many scholars in the field believe that peak oil will occur within the next 5-10 years. Based on the government's reports on the matter, it appears that they are purposely obfuscating the issue to make it appear to not be a problem. The other liars are the oil companies. They are determined to protect their stock prices, so they lie, or bury, the information. No one would buy oil company stock if they knew that their reserves estimates are highly inflated and most likely very wrong. Then you have American's inherient inability to plan for the future or to curtail their spending habits to provide for a better future for their children. Our children will no doubt have a lower standard of living than us. Part of the blame for this is the intense advertising pressure put upon us by corporations.

But, back to the point about spending on important things around the house, the reason for this is because this generation is the first to treat their homes as investments rather than as their abode. This is all part of the con game that corporations have played upon the American people in that we have become sedused by their belief system, meaning that we have adopted their habit of looking at everything in terms of the amount of return on investment. In other words, in the old days, if folks had some spare money, which wasn't common, and they wanted to "fix up" the house, they didn't go about it in terms of maximizing the value of the house, they did it because it made them happy. Virtually no one these days thinks like that. No one does big changes to their home just to make themselves happy. They do it because some magazine or TV show told them that doing it will make them rich by making their house worth more money. Upgrading the heating system does not add any significant value to the home because it's expected to replace appliances once in a while, whereas blowing a huge amount of money on a new kitchen and bathrooms is expected to raise the value of the house significantly. We have been seduced by a monster called "the corporation" that we created in the first place. Corporations are legal fictions created for the express purpose of making money for shareholders. They have a long and ugly history if anyone cares to research this topic. They are now in their end game of privatizing everything in the world, including our own DNA. They want us as slaves, and it looks like they are going to win for a while until the peak oil event occurs or global warming makes enough hurricanes to destroy all of their infrastructure, or both. We have for too long accepted their belief system and it's time for us to wake up to that fact.

Dave Yates (PAH)

John

That is exactly what I do with our current proposals. Have been for three years now. The higher efficiency products sell themselves once its presented in this fashion. Doing that required I do a lot of background work to develop a proposal format that could serve as a boilerplate (most appropriate term!) for those to follow.

They get the entire scope of options and pick the installation that best suits their needs, desires and budget. The annual cost differential based upon current fuel costs is included as is their return on investment percentage, which almost always exceeds the stock market performance.

It's a win/win approach for all parties.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

peak oil

With the pace of increased demand for fossil fuels, I personally believe peak oil will occur sooner than that time frame. Google "Hubbert's Peak" for lots of interesting stuff to read.

willyoujoinus.com is one from an oil co no less & includes some rather interesting info.

There's never been a better time to be involved in an energy-related trade.

Hanging ten on the energy tsunami!

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John Van Hoesen

Don't lump in the USGS

Dirk -

I agree wholeheartedly with you on so many levels, but don't include the USGS. Although it is part of their job to assess reserves and make short-term predictions, they have never suggested we have nothing to worry about, the DOE on the other hand is a different story (see attached PDF's where the DOE attacks the USGS for their conservative estimates).

I also agree with your comment about a false sense of security, Americans would not buy into the need to utilize energy so efficiently if they were correctly informed by the oil giants, or even our politicians for that matter!!!! Here's a quote from Senator Charles ("Chuck") Grassley of Iowa:

"You know what? What makes our economy grow is energy. And Americans are used to going to the gas tank (sic), and when they put that hose in their, uh, tank, and when I do it, I wanna get gas out of it. And when I turn the light switch on, I want the lights to go on, and I don't want somebody to tell me I gotta change my way of living to satisfy them. Because this is America, and this is something we've worked our way into, and the American people are entitled to it, and if we're going improve (sic) our standard of living, you have to consume more energy."

Ummm... what?! Essentially that tells us not to worry about conservation or our energy consumption, all is well in the world of oil and gas and keep cranking up that tstat... It also suggests that (as others have already suggested) home heating isn't considered a priority unless you turn it into an economic issue... Senator Grassley just gave everyone the red light to believe they can buy that Chrysler or put $1000 worth of Christmas presents on their credit card, because they aren't going to get hammered by higher prices in the spring.

Dave you mentioned Hubbert's Peak... In 1956 he had the foresight to realize oil/gas weren't renewable resources and predicted a US Peak in the 70's (it happened in 1971) and a World Peak between 1995-2000. The question is, has it happened? The answer is yes, no, yes, no, yes no... as you can imagine, it varies by who you talk to. I also included a slide of estimates I use in my class, to illustrate the wide range of estimates AND notice who has the greatest prediction for future production... yep, the USA.

On another note, I'm not sure why a few of our messages were deleted... but in a previous (and now deleted post) I suggested that folks develop a portfolio (if you already don't do this of course) and print out the amazing before and after photographs, include quotes from your previous customers exclaiming how happy they are, and after a year or so, call back and ask your previous customers how much they saved and keep that in your portfolio as well. Show the customer your skills in a nice neat little 3-ring binder and EDUCATE them as to why you think they need a bigger boiler, smaller boiler, etc. Might take a little longer, but you might get less complaining if they understand the "why" behind why you're charging them more for a part they can buy on the internet.

cheers
j~

Dirk Wright

See ASPO

John, I got my information about the USGS from ASPO, but the document you provided tells a different story. See:

http://www.peakoil.ie/newsletters/126

for Colin Campbell's analysis of a USGS study on peak oil, where they predicted a peak around mid century. I couldn't find the original USGS article, sorry. I really don't know the whole story of the USGS's position on peak oil because I just don't have time to wade through their information. I hope I have not misspoke...