Radiant Ceiling Install

Steve_35

We have a project where the customer would like to have radiant floor in the kitchen & entry, but it looks like the available floor area isn't sufficient but the ceiling would be fine.

This is a fairly extensive rehab so the options are pretty open right now. There is a second floor above so there isn't any access from above. It'll be a drywall ceiling. I'm looking for suggestions as to options for the panel construction.

I know one way would be to put ThermofinC on the ceiling joists with strips of OSB or something similar as shimming material and then sheetrock on top. Any other techniques?

Thanks.

Unknown

we utilizing the drywall strapping. staple up lightweight plates at 16" o.c. for easy installation, and either add a second run (if you have very good insulation over the assembly) of strapping to support the other wing of the plate, or use 3/4" rigid foam to fill the rest of the space between strapping runs, minus an inch to leave room for the tubing/plate groove.

Lightweight plates and PEX-AL-PEX should be quite adequate.

Constantin

Another possibility:

The KARO system that is embedded into the ceiling plaster. Their capillary tube system not only allow heating but cooling as well.

Nron_13

Karo

the karo system has no oxygen barrier and must be seperated with aheat ex , ziggy has a pdf file for radiant walls addition and the same method could be used on the ceilings for heating system , some programs now allow you to calculate the output from walls and ceilings , they could do well since surface temp isnot as critical in these areas

Nron_13

Karo

the karo system has no oxygen barrier and must be seperated with aheat ex , ziggy has a pdf file for radiant walls addition and the same method could be used on the ceilings for heating system , some programs now allow you to calculate the output from walls and ceilings , they could do well since surface temp is not as critical in these areas

Constantin

Wow...

... that really stinks. Well, I suppose here is a business opportunity for a PEX manufacturer once the patent on this system runs out. Does anyone know why KaRo would not incorporate a O₂-barrier in their tubing?

Thanks for the update, that really dampens my enthusiasm for that system!

GMcD

Karo

The Karo (and other European capillary tube systems) are made from polypropylene plastic which is easily recycled, and virtually impervious to strange water conditions. BUT, it is not an oxygen barrier material. The typical systems I've seen installed in Germany use stainless steel plate heat exchangers to separate the capillary tube and plastic piping systems from the main heating/cooling plant. The polypropylene can also be easily thermally welded on site with the right "ironing tools", and over there, they have polypropylene and high density polyethylene pipe in the general building services piping sizes so all of the piping system can be made up from the plastics including the main primary piping up to 3" diameter. They use stainless steel valving and components in the plastic piping systems so the oxygen doesn't affect any of the in-line metallic components in the plastic piping system.

Steve_35

Do you have any pics of this, Rob?

I'm not getting a very good mental image of what you suggest.

Unknown

This is a fast and dirty example of it up over our shipping bench, using double runs of 1x3 strapping. Instead of double runs, you could use single runs and 3/4" rigid foam to fill the rest of the space, to support the second wing of the plate. Multicor is in this example but any PEX-AL-PEX is a good choice.

Steve_35

Thanks, Rob.

Is PAP rigid enough to stay in the groove on its own for a ceiling? I mean the plates you're showing don't look like they fit very tightly.

Scott Gregg

Rehau, Raupanel

Look into this system! You use lower water temps and I think you can get 30btu/sf out of it. Plus instalation would be easier because the panels are rigid. It also will give you furring strips to fasten your drywall to.

http://www.rehau-na.com/rehau.construction/heating.and.plumbing/radiant.heating/raupanel.system..html

ScottMP

I did this at

my house.

Climate panel on the cieling. It fits in nicly where the strapping is. I you needed more you can redo the strapping.

Oh sorry I ran out and used quick trac ( same thing ). I had my load satisfied by the floor and wall and did this just to run the return and get alittle more, but you could fill up the cieling to get what you need.

More thank one way to skin a cat. This is one.

Scott

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Unknown

the particular plates we are using fit well enough to hold the pipe up without additional support. Also gives good contact with the pipe. It's not thermofin, obviously, but as I said extruded plates in ceilings are very overkill.

Unknown

well, the trick is with just lightweight plates and PAP, radiant ceiling is cheaper than anything except slab.

Prefabs aren't really any easier to install, and they are 3x the cost, minimum, and you don't get any real performance benefit.. quik trak is actually worse. if it's leftover scrap, sure, it make sense to use it up, but the strapping/plate method is simple to install (especially since the strapping will probably be put up for you by the framers who were going to do it anyway), very cheap, and has good performance especially w/rigid foam backing so I don't see a real benefit to using raupanel or climate panel in ceilings if it isn't "job waste" you're looking to use up.

ebey

radiant ceiling

You might want to look at modular and linear ceiling panels
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