Electric floor warming

Larry (from OSHA)

I thought perhaps you were referring to paragraph C regarding other trades making a mess of your work after you get done with it.

(C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars,
wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as
paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues...

Larry (from OSHA)

Larry (from OSHA)

Small bathroom

Doing a gut job on our master bath and want to floor warm about 18 sq. ft. Looking for any perspectives on what brand you think is good and reliable. Also, preferences on the mat type or the string the wire type. I am looking at the sun touch brand which appears to be from watts radiant.

Thanks for any insight.

Larry (from OSHA)

Timco

Will you be wearing the appropriate eye, ear protection, a hard hat, and steel toe boots? Gloves? Long pants & shirt? Asbestos abatement certificate? Breathing aparatus?

Sorry...had to ask. OSHA has been on a few of my jobs over the years in SLC.

I am looking at a similar scenario Monday for a customer. This post will help. How many watts does it pull? Does it need it's own ckt? Are the leads rated to run in the wall to the switch box without flex or some kind of protection?

T

jim lockard

Heat weave

Larry-I ran a strip of electric radiant in front of my kitchen counters 3 feet wide by 10 feet long under cermic tile really takes the chill off. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Larry (from OSHA)

Was someone less than friendly?

Hi Tim,

I hope your experiences weren't too unpleasant. Here in Minnesota we try to deal with hazards that employees are exposed to. (feel free to ask my perpective on anything or any OSHA encounters good or bad that you've had).

My understanding is 8 to 10 watts for floor warming, about 15 for space heating. Yes, heating loads need their own circuit, GFCI protected. The leads would need to be protected as far as I know. They are 120 volts.

Larry (from OSHA)

Blackoakbob

I'm trying to decide....

this question myself. It would seem the mesh type would be easier to handle, Larry. I do like the floor sensing thermostats provided. Don't forget the loop behind the mirror to keep it fog-free! Best Regards.

Timco

I'd expect 800-1000 watts, but I can't see how 8-10 watts could produce any amount of heat??? A night light has a 10 watt bulb. Maybe per-foot? I am a journeyman electrician and have killed many a watt....get it?....killawatt?

T

Larry (from OSHA)

I wasn't very clear

was I? It's watts per sq. ft. You're right, ten total watts won't do much for a floor.

Since you mentioned that you are an electrician, is NFPA 70E near and dear to you and do you use voltage rated gloves? (I had to ask!)

Larry (from OSHA)

jim lockard

Tim-a-watt

Thats the beauty of Radiant heat it 10 to 15 watts per square ft Tim.
I know your thinking baseboard heaters at 250 watts per square foot. Great produce hope you get the opportunity to work with it.Best Wishes J.Lockard

jim lockard

hey Larry

Do you consider white mules voltage rated?? If so I am in compliance?

Larry (from OSHA)

doubt it!

But ya know, with all the talk on some previous threads about plumbing and heating guys getting zapped when touching pipes, maybe voltage rated gloves and a voltage tester would be good things to have in the toolbox.

Larry (from OSHA)

Timco

Got my good 'ol NEC right here. Are you familiar with art 110.12?

Anyone?

T

Timco

No gloves needed when 'yer smart enough to kill the power...by pullin' the meter!!! Sometimes you need to take it that far. Some old homes from the late 1800's and no disconnect or main!

T

jim lockard

one of my favorites

make it look good.

Timco

I have all the code books going back to the edition of 1907, "Rules and Requirements of the National Board of Fire Underwriters, for the installation of Electric Wiring and Apparatus. They started in 1897.

The dead man wrote that last year you could be jailed for grounding a wire or metal box in a building...and this year you could be jailed for NOT grounding......

T

Larry (from OSHA)

110.12?

Are you referring to the 2002 edition?

Article 130.2 in the 2004 edition is very helpful along with Table 130.7(C)(9)(a) Hazard/Risk Category Classifications.

Bottom line from our perspective is that getting gloved up, etc. is required when performing voltage testing as part of establishing an electrically safe work condition.

Larry (form OSHA)

Timco

yes...110.12 was 2002 & prior. Mechanical execution of work. "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workman like manner."

T

Mike T., Swampeast MO

This product Step Warmfloor is rather unique.

Low-voltage, proportional operation. Have not used it however.

Have used a simple cable system twice. A panel-temp sensing thermostat is a MUST. My only problem was installing the tile. Found it MUCH better to remove the little clips as I proceeded as they're just thick enough to cause problems with THINset mortar. For a simple rectangular area I'd presume that the mat-type products would be easier to install.

Jim Franklin_2

Nuheat

Hi Larry...I just fired up my Nuheat, almost laid down and took a nap on the floor (it's my first floor heat experience). It's a mat style, was easy to install though the temp sensor probe really needs to be routed into a subfloor channel as it sits proud of the mat. Their thermostat (re-badged from a Canadian Company according to my electical inspector) has an internal GFCI. Nice stuff but pricy.

I ran the mat just to the edge of the toilet drain so seat sitters will have warm feet (could have done this better with string style of course). I repeatedly told the plumber's admin about it. By the time that info made its way to the plumber, they not only failed to bring the proper non-wax ring, but drilled the flange into the floor right through the mat. Luckily they didn't hit the wires, but it's bozo moves like this that make HOs like me DIY everything we can. It's not worth rolling the dice when the odds of getting a good pro are so slim.

Stepping away from the coffee now...

jim

Larry (from OSHA)

Mike

I've seen their site and yes it does look very interesting. I would think for slightly larger projects it may work out well. I wonder about the x-former that goes with it. Hiding it may be problematic and some can buzz a little.

Thanks,

Larry (from OSHA)

Larry (from OSHA)

Jim

Sounds like you will go into winter with a nice comfy floor. Thanks for the perspectives. I hope your wires are a few inches from the ring or that you did end up getting one not made of wax. Thanks for your insight.

Larry (from OSHA)

Weezbo

*~/:) *~/:)

for some reason i got to think its going to be "All Good"

i too have the coffee in me, by the gallon ,by 7 am

leo g_13

Hey Larry,

have never installed either style myself, as it is the electricians job here. But my good buddy electrician, has just m oved from the nu-heat mat style to the "string" wire style. His reasons, with mat style, he generally had the mat custom made to fit the space, and sometimes the space would change. He feels that he can install the wire more "custom" like. And, after having more then one mat cut by tiler trowels, the wire style is a lot easier to repair.

Leo G

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Larry (from OSHA)

Hey Leo

Thanks for the thoughts. I lean towards the string style myself, but I think the installer likes the mat. For what I've got for a space, it probably won't make much difference. Just got to make sure the tile guys are careful!

Larry (from OSHA)