When did you start \" pumping away \" ?

Mark Anderson_3

My first circulator replacement! I put it in backwards because I just assumed you were sending the water upstairs. I never thought you would be pulling it back down to the boiler. Well I was corrected on that only to start pumping out of the boiler a few years later.

No one has ever explained to me why the circs are on the return anyway. The only explanation I ever got was that boiler co.s found it cheaper to ship that way.
Also the tech who corrected my first pump told me that the pumps couldn't take the hotter water so they had to be on the return- but he tuned up an oil burner by looking at the smoke from the chimney!

Unknown

I know there's more than a few of us

who've been doing this long enough to have piped boilers the old fashioned way - flow valves or zone valves on the supply , circs on the return . When did you learn about PONPC and pumping away from it ?

I admit I had no clue about any of the reasoning behind pumping away . All I remember was Chrispy Chicken coming into work one day back in '95 , raving about a new way to pipe a boiler - circs on top !!!! An all copper return !!! No more building a steel manifold on the supply AND return !!!! Cut the install time by almost an hour . I finally found out about PONPC in '98 right here on The Wall .

Anyone else care to share ?

pitman9

I couldn't put a date on it but

it was after I took a system design class in Auburn, NY. Maybe 10 years ago? I knew that was where the circ was supposed to go but didn't really understand why until after I read Dan's "Pumping Away".

FWIW, we still install ZVs where ever it's convenient. Using the Taco ZVs I can't see any commanding reason to install on one side or the other.

Unknown

Yeah , I didn't mean

to imply where the zone valves should be , this is just where we often find them on old installs - and zone valves are a rarity where we work .

Steamhead (in transit)

Tried it on my own boiler first

which had to be at least five years ago. After seeing how well it works, I install all hot-water boilers this way now.

Ted_9

pumping away

I think it was 1995. I was taught to do it that way and the guy I worked under taught me well.

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pitman9

I seem to remember reading

probably in one of Dan's books the ZVx are best installed on one side, but I think he was referring to fast closing valves like HW or Erie.

Rich P.

no pressure change

My parents neighbors boiler, after that I never looked back.
I remember doing a split moniflow system on two seperate zones, mother-inlaws house(couldn't get to the baseboards anyway!) never actually blead them was able to purge and run. I am a definite believer. slowly getting all my friends to do it and they are very reluctant. But then the light shine's on marblehead!! Its actually fun to fire their boilers and watch them smile.
That book, Dan's Book, soda bottle wow that made sense!

Rich P.

Rich P.

sorry 1995 September

Glenn Harrison_2

I'm not sure when I first heard about it.

But I really learned and understood it shortly after I started coming here about 5 years ago, and read "Pumping Away". I think I first tried it on a problamatic system about 4 years ago, and pumping away with a good air eliminator completely destroyed the air and water flow noise issues they had. Won't EVER do pumping towards again!

Mark Hunt

After a class I took at


Amtrol! That was back in the late 80's. They quoted this guy I had never heard of named Dan Hoolihoop or something like it!!LOL!!!

One of the best classes I ever attended.

It's late.............you do the math.


Mark H

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Rich Lowenstein_3

> who've been doing this long enough to have piped

> boilers the old fashioned way - flow valves or

> zone valves on the supply , circs on the return .

> When did you learn about PONPC and pumping away

> from it ?

>

> I admit I had no clue about any of

> the reasoning behind pumping away . All I

> remember was Chrispy Chicken coming into work one

> day back in '95 , raving about a new way to pipe

> a boiler - circs on top !!!! An all copper return

> !!! No more building a steel manifold on the

> supply AND return !!!! Cut the install time by

> almost an hour . I finally found out about PONPC

> in '98 right here on The Wall .

>

> Anyone else

> care to share ?

Rich Lowenstein_3

> who've been doing this long enough to have piped

> boilers the old fashioned way - flow valves or

> zone valves on the supply , circs on the return .



Nothing fundamentally wrong with having circs on the return. You don't need to pump away from the boiler, only from the tank.

bob young

circulator on supply.

in 1970 we were installing a american-standard boiler with a complete mono-flow system in a new school in williamsburgh. when i started going over the boiler schematics i saw they speced out installing the pump on the supply tapping on top of boiler. i had just finished a new weil-mc lain and it was scoped out the then conventional design with pump on return. this new design we were not ready for. were afraid to do it like that. we had a real heated discussion between me and the other two plumbers on this job. finally we just put the pump on the return like we did a hundred times before. never saw or heard of this pump application until the eighties when wallace ennis [ dan's old outfit ] started their monthly newsletters on installation & troubleshooting. that opened a whole new outlook on heating for me. good stuff.

Murph'_5

had to be

around 92-93 after I learned there were more than two colors of boilers.


Murph'

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Ross_7

Pumping away

There are a few people locally that look at me like I'm nuts when I tell them to put the pump on the supply side pumping away from PONPC. I'll tell them the advantages, but to no avail. Keep pressing on!

Darin Cook_3

1994

I was working up in Saranac Lake, NY for Scheefer's P&H. My boss Bill knew this heating guru by the name of Dan Holohan and loaned me this book called Pumping Away. You might say after reading that book I was " Born Again ". I have never looked back since. For all the good folks who got my installs before that I am sorry, I did not know any better.







Darin

Wayco Wayne_2

About 12 years ago

I hooked into it. I don't remember much but I think it was a hydropulse boiler. Ack! Had no problem with the pupming but lots with the boiler. Ended up taking it out. I remember it took more time to Pipe it that way but it was worth it to do things right. Now I can't imagine doing another way. WW

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Pat Clark_2

Early 80's

Don't remember exactly when, I read in a trade magazine about the Point of No Pressure and we started repiping systems with air problems and new installs with pumping away. Funny, since then we don't have air problems in our boiler installations, except of course when the auto vent plugs up.

Pat (Alaska Time) Clark

Steamhead (in transit)

But

if you pump away from the tank and toward the boiler, you add the pump's pressure differential to the system's fill pressure and it's heading right for the safety valve on the boiler. In some cases this will cause the safety valve to open- it only cares that it sees 30 pounds, doesn't matter where the pressure came from.

That's why we put the circs on the supply after it leaves the boiler, downstream from the air separator/tank connection. Dan covers this also, in his book "Pumping Away".

"Steamhead"

Big Ed

20 years

About 20 years ago after attending Dan's class..

Ruthe Jubinville

Pumping away

Back probably in the 70's Crane came out with a boiler with thr circulater mounted on the top front whivh was the supply

Al Gregory

30 years ago I think national boilers came packed with a B&G 100 circulator on the supply of the boiler. When working on monoflow systems that had these boilers I quickly learned how much better it worked. I have been putting the circ on the supply for 20 years on monoflow boilers and a purge station on the return with a auto airvent on the elbow before it returns to the boiler. On some installs I didnt even have to bleed the convectors.

Phil_6

maybe 15 years ago

After a seminar by this Dan guy.......

jackchips_2

Like many others

the first boiler after reading Pumping Away.

I keep loaning it out and having to buy new ones as it doesn't seem to find it's way home.

Jack

leo g_13

1999

during my hydronic heatloss course. The instructor, Leo Vallaincaourt (now working for Watts Radiant), took the class into the shop for a demo. There was a pump station set-up with guages and valves everywhere. When my eyes saw the pressure guage reading pumping INTO the PONPC, and the pressure coming out, then saw the HUGE difference when the circ was pumpming away. well that was my road to Damuscus!

Leo G

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Boilerpro_3

I was lucky

It was on my second install after Art Pittaway gave me the B&G Engineering manual for a little "lite" reading. Lots of Gil Carlson in there and many other bright minds. That's about 10 years ago (I'm still a newbie). I still refer to it when I get into things like conventional compression tanks piped below the air separator.

Boilerpro

Ragu

1995 or 1996

Learned it at a hydronics seminar put on by the B&G rep, FIA out of Woburn, Mass. George Carey also taught us about the "purge station" on the supply header.

Joe Grosso

1988 area

When Dan first started writing in Fueloil&Oilheat magazine.

joel_19

74

Back in 74 i went to the school library and all the Curious George books where taken but they had this one from B+G....

[Deleted User]

Been so long ago...

it seems like forever!

I CAN tell you it made a whole lot of difference in my life. No more annual air letting sessions:-)

Some people refuse to change. I know a couple of them that go by "my grandpapy did it this way, my pappy did it this way, and by gawd blah blah blah blah blah BLAH!

To each, his own.

ME

Al Corelli

What's "Pumping Away"????

(I just HAD to do that)

jeff_51

I started about 85

Dan was writing about it in P&M, but have seen many copper radiant systems installed in the 50's and early 60's that were set up that way