Two pipe steam - can this be the vent?

JamesBednarz

This two pipe is all new to me. In trying to figure out high bills and one specific radiator heating issue , I went in search of the main vents that I remember from my former home's one pipe steam system. Can it be ..there are none? THEN..I came across this ( see attached ) and it seems this matches a discussion of a vapor system in Dan's book.

Can someone confirm that this is the main vent ?

I have also attached a pic of the trap on the problematic radiator. Does any one know of replacement parts for same ?
( This is the only rad that has this type of trap.)

Thanks

Jim

KC_Jones

A few links from the heating museum about Broomell vapor systems just for fun.
https://heatinghelp.com/assets/documents/312.pdf
https://heatinghelp.com/assets/documents/359.pdf
https://heatinghelp.com/assets/documents/404.pdf
https://heatinghelp.com/assets/documents/358.pdf

Steamhead

Broomell was one of several Vapor system manufacturers who used the chimney draft to pull air from the system. What type of fittings are on the other radiators?

Jamie Hall

A condenser in place with a chimney vent! That baby hasn't been fiddled with that much -- what fun! No reason why it shouldn't work just fine as is -- but you could rework it to have a regular vent -- say three or for Gorton #2s -- instead of a straight pipe to the chimney.

You've got the pressure setting on the vapourstat right, too, I see. Only thing there I might suggest is making sure that the vapourstat is still level -- if it is the mercury sort, they are very very reliable and just about bulletproof, but absurdly sensitive to being off level.

You can confirm that that trap is -- or is not -- working by measuring the temperature of the outlet. It may be hot -- even up to as much as 200, if the radiator is fully hot -- but it shouldn't be as hot as the radiator. If it is, it's failed open. If the radiator doesn't heat, well then it's failed closed...

High heating bills are quite relative. It depends so much on how good your insulation is, and windows, and where you are. And, of course, how much space you are heating. And how good and well adjusted and cleaned your boiler is. To give you a very rough idea, the place I take care of uses a bit under a half gallon of oil per square foot of heated space (9 foot ceilings) per year. It's a lot, yes, but not excessive for the building.

JamesBednarz

This is the typical connection( see attached) that I see on many of the other radiators. I am planning to do some temperature probing when we get to some real cold weather to see if the trap has failed . I also realize that I need to check all of the traps !

I should note that the troublesome radiator is huge, located at the farthest space from the boiler and is over an unheated garage. And yes, insulation is lacking in this Big Old House. I

Steamhead

Definitely looks like Broomell, but we can't see the whole thing..... can you take a pic of that return connection looking from the front of the radiator? Also one of the supply valve if it's still the original?

JamesBednarz

Here you go! These are typical of most of the rads in the house. Seems that the earlier trap ( attached here again ) is the only one that is different. I am tempted to take it apart and clean out...but only if I know I can find a replacement .

Thanks for the support in this effort!

JamesBednarz

By the way....is is typcial or Ok to install the trap in this position? ( see last comment showing (non-painted) trap?

Thanks

Sailah

James,

We would most likely have a replacement cage unit for that trap. If you could measure the OD of the cover and let me know the pipe size (1/2" or 3/4") I can tell you definitively. You have an outboard trap, yes that's the correct orientation for the Broomell.

Since everyone likes seeing pics, couple old timers from our vaults

JamesBednarz

Thanks. I will get the measurement and reach out to you. Is there a direct contact # or email?

Sailah

powens@barnesandjones.com
Or 781-963-8000 x214

Thanks

Peter

BRIANJ

If you clean up those valves you will find a beautiful nickel finish and ebony wood handles. If you need any more help give me a call at 973-303-8306.
Brian Reynolds