What would you do? Please advise.

Port

In Illinois, possibly purchasing a 1925 one story house with basement and attic. Attic has been converted to one large room, used as kids bedroom. No A/C except window units on Main n Upstairs. Radiator heat on Main level, was coal originally, converted to natural gas long time ago.... with pipes n heavy unit all wrapped up in some type of insulation, very old. The upstairs area/bedroom did not have any heat, but last owner installed a baseboard electric heater, controlled by a knob/T-stat on the wall. As far as duct-work, there is none anywhere. On that note, the interior wall surface is you guessed it, 1925 lathe n plaster......

Was thinking of removing the old heat system and replacing with forced air furnace and AC, which would mean duct-work too, but getting the conditioned air up to the top of house could be costly, and the comfort level not all that great in the summer time for sure...... Probably not good bang for the buck up there.....

I have some different ideas and choices to make, with one of them being to run from this house purchase. But with the exception of the HVAC, this house is just what we want! Lots of options, so like I am asking, What would you do and/or advise please????

I am handy, repaired my house and help other families, have some knowledge of the radiant heat-grew up with it, and some knowledge of forced-air heat with A/C, and also know some about Heat Pumps with reversing valves. I am not a professional by no means, but quite handy maintenance-wise.
My son wants to buy this house, make it a home, and raise a family in this community, and I am willing to help him, of course.... But I could use some guidance here please... Thank you in advance. Don Port

BobC

I'm a homeowner in a 1918 six room 2 story house one block from the coast in Massachusetts. I have steam heat that was installed when the house was built.

In your case I think hydronic heat would be your best bet. The radiators (or baseboard) can be plumbed with Pex which is a lot easier then rigid pipe. It is a lot less disruptive to an old house than running duct would be to PROPERLY install forced hot air.

The one problem is this does not address any air conditioning requirements. I use a large (14k BTU) window AC on the first floor which does a great job. I don't feel the need for AC upstairs but your needs may be different than mine.

The best thing you can do is to fix any air infiltration problems you have and to INSULATE.

Bob

Port

Some options I have thought of include:
(A) Have existing unit inspected n cleaned, remove old insulation n replace that, (for kids sakes). Upstairs, use the baseboard heater and a window AC unit. And then install a Heat Pump to cool the Mainfloor and to supplement the radiant heat system on below freezing day/nights, which would mean only installing duct work to the basement ceiling/mainfloors wood floors. Returns and supply duct lines.

(B) Upstairs the same as above. For Main floor, scrap out existing heat unit and pipes, maybe leaving the radiators for looks, their idea... Install gas forced air furnace n AC, with duct work to Main floor, on the floor. This option would be easy for the young couple to understand the *how to* of operation.

(C)Regardless of what we do to the Main floor, an option for upstairs.... Possible for the converted upstairs bedroom, maybe look into a window type unit that Hotels use to heat n cool rooms. Electric I'm guessing. Not sure of it's cost or the cost of operation through the years with this option......

It would be nice to get a system that doesn't cost too much each month, but yet not hurt too bad to install. I'm taking into consideration that the upstair bedroom doesn't have very good insulation in that ceiling. Just the thickness of the 2x4 roof rafters on 24" centers......
There is one place that I could run a (supply/return) double duct from basement to the way upstairs, but that would mean a stronger blower and bigger furnace and AC unit too.....

I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point. I'm not a Pro.
Thanks again in advance! Don Port

wogpa67

keep the hot water or steam heat.

Port

@BobC What exactly is hydronic heat? Is this what the house already has? And if so, how do I find someone to Inspect it for longivity and safety?

BobC

What you have now is hydronic. I would have to see pictures of your boiler and the piping around it to say it were hot water or steam.

Please post pictures.

Bob

Jamie Hall

As a general rule -- and there are always exceptions -- it is both less expensive and more satisfactory in terms of comfort to retain the old radiators. If they are steam, the best bet is to simply get the steam system working the way it was meant to work -- which can be a bit finicky, but neither expensive nor difficult -- and install (properly!) a new steam boiler. Similarly if the system is hot water, with the slight advantage that hot water is pretty easy to zone -- divide into areas with different controls. Both are, oddly, fairly easy to add to, also, which you might want to do for that upstairs room.

I would NOT go to forced air heat. It is no cheaper to run than steam or hot water -- and the conversion is much more expensive. The only advantage to forced hot air is the possibility of central air conditioning, but one can do just as well for air conditioning with any number of much less expensive "mini-split" or unit systems.

In terms of operating expense, the best bang for the buck is always additional insulation and air sealing. You might consider blown in insulation in the plaster walls; it will be as effective as tearing the plaster out and installing batts (if not more so) and much less hassle. You should also consider good quality storm windows -- either inside or outside. Again, less expensive than new windows and quite as effective.

Do send us some pictures of the existing radiators and boiler and piping, and we can provide more advice.

Port

Sorry Bob, I don't know how to do the pic thing, but maybe my son can in a day or two. But will post asap. With a radiator in each room, about 2' tall, with supply n return piping, closed loop... doesn't that make it hot water? Will get pics. Thank you!

Snowmelt

Yes that's hot water where are you from

Port

@Jamie Hall, Zoning-that sounds neat! And yes on the insulation, planning already to check whole house. I can do that. Storm windows fairly new too! The HVAC is the possible hold-up on this purchase. I need to get a ballpark price, but 1st need to figure which way to go with the HVAC.

I must say, I have always thought the Hydronic (thanks BobC) was an energy waster and not that comfortable at winter time, but you guys have me re-thinking this!! Heck, the winter you have had up in the north-east this year......

About the AC, what are some of those "mini-split" or unit systems your thinking of?? Have you used Heat Pumps before? They actually cool quite well, but would need some ducting, but probably just under the floor, not up walls.
Thanks Jamie, working on pics!

Port

@Snowmelt, where you from? That name hopefully fits in here in a couple days. We got 5" snow today, but heat wave coming Tuesday. It may reach 5 above, opps, typo, that's 45 degrees, for 1 day. The Illinois River floods every year, about a mile from my place. If your up in the North-east also, the thaw there will not be a good one in 2015.....

Abracadabra

Supply and return piping on the radiators could be 2-pipe steam.

Keep what is in there now, make sure it works well. Consider spacepak or mini-splits for a/c

Port

Thank you all for your help!
My son doesn't want the hydronic system, and the cost to replace it with forced air heat/cool is above his price range. So he probably will not purchase that house.
The good news is that you all have taught me a little more on heating! I will spread the word here in central Illinois.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Hydronic is the best system you can ever have weather it's steam or hot water and you can use ductless splits for the ac with or without a heat pump for back up/supplemental heat. I have lived with steam, hot water and scorched air and air is the worst system for an older home.

Port

agree with you, wish my son would... thanks anyway!

Weezbo

first thing to spend money on is a heat loss and maybe a blowerdoor test. then get a hold on some insulation contractors .pay them when they show up for an estimate .
deal with the entire home . then think about what you need to heat it.
Weezbo.