You Kept Me From Blowing Myself Up Once, Let's Do It Again!
I have a commercial griddle that requires a 3/4 propane connection and a propane fired pizza oven on my back porch. It works great and does not violate my core principle with is not to blow up.
We use a couple 100# POL propane tanks and switch them as needed. They have a 12in copper POL X POL connection that goes into this:
From that it goes into a tee then to this:
https://www.therestaurantstore.com/items/446156
Then to the individual low pressure appliance regulators for each appliance. Works great, no explosions.
Here is the problem. We are constantly moving this around which means we have to disconnect the POL pigtail from the tank. The 3/8" copper line is not a big fan of moving all the time and likes to crease and then break, which seems to have the potential to violate my first tenet.
Is there a high pressure POL X POL that is rubber, or better yet a POL x Quick Connect of some sort? We need to come out with POL and go into the regulator with POL, but whatever is between that can change.
Any ideas on how to do this so we can easily (preferably tool free and safely) disconnect the regulator from the tank? Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Comments
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any photos?
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How far is it from the tank to the appliances and is the piping accessible? Could possibly put the low pressure regulator at the tank and size all the piping for low pressure gas.
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What is the capacity of the griddle. of both appliances. 3/4" with propane is a huge capacity, is that sized for use with natural gas too?
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If you look at his previous post his appliances are only around 180,000 btu/hr total. I think you can do that with a 1" low pressure connection from the tank with propane, possibly even 3/4" once you do the math.
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This is the broken pigtail.
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Thank you for the response.
The griddle requires a 3/4" connection according to the literature with it. My whole setup is all 3/4" from the regulator to the appliances. I would like to avoid changing that if possible.
Is there any setup that is high pressure and quick connect that could be POL on both sides? Every time I move the tank and griddle I have to disconnect the regulator because it is so heavy and hangs on the pigtail. That is where I am getting the break.
Any way to remedy that without changing he whole system?
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3/4" is good for about 80 ft at 180,000 btu/hr of low pressure propane. that is assuming the entire run is shared to both appliances. If it tees off and one section is 180,000 btu/hr and 2 sections are 90,000 btu/hr to each individual appliance the distance is more depending on how long the shared section is.
I'm pretty sure that 3/4" inlet is for when it is set up for natural gas.
That is assuming .5 in wc pressure drop. If the regulators of the appliances can take more like 13" wc you can calculate for about 1.5" wc pressure drop and get more distance out of 3/4" pipe by using a regulator set to 13" wc on the bottle.
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I think I would have done something like this. Eliminating the small high pressure copper line to the regulator.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System
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this with a quick connector and rubber hose to the 3/4 line. I don’t know of any quick connector that goes into the tank POL that is a specific thread and connection. After the tank reg shown here you can adapt to an LP approved hose
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
I don't think copper tubing is rated for the pressure of the propane bottle, i think at least a first stage regulator needs to be before the copper tubing.
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1/4" copper is good for 912# at 100 degrees
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is it approved to use it like that? it seems way too fragile for that application.
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Designed for use in commercial Kitchens where they frequently disconnect and move units for cleaning
get it up to 72" long
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Here are some pictures of the current setup
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The vent on the regulator shouldn't be up where it can fill with rainwater. How does the high pressure line get from the tank to the regulator?
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Will going down to 3/8" and then back up to 3/4" provide the volume that is needed for a 90k BTU and 60K BTU appliance?
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Good point on the vent. The broken pigtail is what connected the tank and the regulator.
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where did it go, was the regualtor right near the tank or does the copper wind around somewhere?
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The smaller the diameter of the copper tubing the more pressure it can take. 1/4" will take more pressure that 2".
Download the Copper development assn hand book
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until you kink it because it is just hanging off someone's deck with a 3 lbs of regulator hanging off it.
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You are right as the rain.
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It was on a 12" pigtail, just hanging. Not a great plan but as long as it did not have to be moved it seemed to work fine. We usually supported it from the other side of the regulator but whenever we move the tank we had to disconnect the pigtail at the tank and that is when it got kinked.
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Just use a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" black or galvanized pipe with an npt adapter to the bottle and in to the regulator, maybe clamp some hanger iron or something to the guard on the bottle to give it a little extra support, then use a 3/4" quick connect hose from the regulator to the tee for the appliances.
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@gotgas said "Here is the problem. We are constantly moving this around which means we have to disconnect the POL pigtail from the tank."
Are the two 100 lbs cylinders being moved on a regular basis? Like on a food truck for example? Or are you constantly setting up then breaking down, like a caterer might do at different locations that may not have cooking facilities available.
I believe that the REGO 970AW is the part you need. This is a hard pipe POL to 1/4" MNPT and has an easy to use hand wheel for tightening the regulator to the tank. If there is not enough room to mount the regulator directly to the tank you can extend the fitting with a ¼” x 6” pipe nipple and a ¼” coupling. You don't want to get too far from the tank because the stress of the regulator hanging on the ¼” brass fitting may cause it to break off.
Using the copper POL to the gas regulator will relieve stress of the regulator's weight plus the connected flexible tubes that supply the appliances may be a better choice. The fact that you need to move the tanks from time to time may be a good idea to just have a spare POL x regulator size fitting connector on hand.
You may also be better off with the rigid fitting connected directly to the regulator by using the 970AW that has the easy off easy on hand wheel for connecting and disconnecting.
Here is the info sheet for all those fittings:
Your LP Gas dealer should be able to get you the fittings you need.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Is this what you are asking? Leave the POL fitting in the tank, quick coupler for the reg into the POL. Or a rubber LP hose from the POL quick coupler to1st reg.
I would not hang the reg off that soft copper tube, the reg needs some support.
This is a soft POL, with the O-ring missing. The O rings do go bad after time, but they seal better than the "hard" brass to brass POL. A hand wheel works on the "soft" o-ring POL, not the hard brass ones, those generally need a wrench.
These are readily available parts, get the couplers that are LP listed, these are standard air compressor fittings.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0
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