Crossover Trap Removal - Tight Space

nz · January 2012

So I'm convinced this trap is stuck shut (radiators I believe are connected to the return don't get hot, and the return line is never warm). However, it is in a really tight space.

I've tried for a week to get the cap off, but its difficult to get any leverage, due to the tight space its in, and the pipes around it.

I'm convinced I need to remove the trap body to service it - and the threads actually move. However there is a water line behind it, preventing me from turning the trap and taking it off.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking I need to remove the piping to the right of the trap and then turn the elbow that the bottom of the trap connects to...

nicholas bonham-carter · January 2012

trap removal

either the waterline or the short nipple has to be cut to get some room.

without the short nipple, will the line sag enough to give clearance? last time i undid a joint like this i found using an open-ended wrench with some tapping/hammering got the joint to unscrew. make sure the short nipple has enough length to put everything back together with trap union.--nbc

MotownSteamer · January 2012

Don't cut anything!

It all went together.....it'll all come apart. I think you are on the right track. Now that you have the flared union nut apart, you can start swinging everything else out of the way. I think you need to take that riser with the elbow off, then you can swing the 2" stuff 90 degrees. Then you'll have the room back the trap out. If you need some cheater bars-and you will-let me know

nz · February 2012

Success!

After a few days of PB sitting on the pipes I still couldn't disconnect that vertical run, so I got a new idea. I disconnected the unions to both traps....by doing that, I was able to move the return line. So, I slowly raised it up about an inch with a 2x4.

That let me take off that trap body I couldn't turn before, and also because it was raised now, I was able to get the cap off the second trap.

Both traps now have new caps & discs.

Dave in QCA · February 2012

congratulations

Great work! How is the system operating? What is the status of the overall project?

nz · February 2012

Better...but not where I want to be quite yet

The system seems to be running "better" - I get more heat out of the radiators on the first floor (they are in-wall convector fin tubes.) However, they also stop heating quicker than the cast iron rads on the second floor. They are still noisy, the clinking expansion noises...I've looked under all of them - not sure where I could put the plastic milk bottle pieces to stop this.

Still, there is one in-wall rad that does not heat up fully unlike the others. My hypothesis was that if I fixed the crossover, that this radiator would heat better, but I was wrong.

I've vacuumed up all the caked-on dust (probably 80 years worth, it was pretty gross) I could from the bottom of the rads in the walls, however I'm pretty sure I'll have to cut open the painted-over grilles on the top and stick a long hose down to vacuum up the dust from the top of the fin tubes.

I used to have an 8-9 degree temperature differential between the first floor and second floor, but now it is less...more like 4 degrees. I used to have the t-stat set to 60 or 62 on the first floor, and it would be 70 degrees on the second floor. Now I have the first floor set to 66, and it is usually around 70 on the second floor. My guess is that the attic was insulated at some point in the last 20 years, so that helped retain heat on the second floor - but the first floor still has mostly original plaster everywhere with no evidence of injection insulation.

I am experimenting with closing the valves on the second floor partially, so they don't overheat the second floor. I also changed the cycle time to 2 per hour on my honeywell touchscreen t-stat.

I need to replace a large portion of the valves on the first and second floors, as many of them leak or hiss. I posted the other day, thinking about getting TRVs instead of plain old valves for better temperature control.

Dave in QCA · February 2012

Cleaning the fin tubes, etc

Sounds like you are coming right along! I bet those fines tubes are caked full of dirt! The bottom was probably as dirty as the top, because the direction of airflow would be air entering at the bottom. Of course, during the times that the fine tube is not hot, the air will settle the other way. During a few years that I worked for a school district, I cleaned out all of the cabinet fine tube convectors. These were easy because there was a metal cover about 3 feet tall that could easily be removed to allow access to clean both sides of the coil. They were very dirty and building was only about 20 years old!

You are on the right track with your cycles per hour adjustment. Fin tube coils respond completely differently than cast iron, and since you have fin tube in your main living space, I would control for that. Regarding the TRVs for the upstairs, yes you could do that, but it would be much less expensive to throttle down the valves that you have and you will probably achieve good results.

I suspect that your fin tube units may simply be noisy. Some noise is caused by movement of the coil on its supports. Sometimes the noise is simply within the coil itself and not much can be done about that.

I had a radiator in my building that seemed to heat slower than the rest - second floor rad on a riser that serves 2nd and 3rd floor. The third floor got super amount of heat. When I was in the process of installing orifices, I discovered an orifice that already existed in the slow radiator. You might loosen your vavle union and look. You just never know.

Crossover Trap Removal - Tight Space

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