Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

LAARS Mascot 1.330 flame goes out

Shmo
Shmo Member Posts: 14
My Mascot frequently throws an error 133 (Daily). When the boiler tries to start, the flame blows out. The flame slowly pulls away from the gas supply then out it goes. After a feew resets it works normally. I had a plumber check the gas pressure at the tank and at the boiler- it is at 9. He also recalibrated it but did not need to adjust it much since it was done before. I have cleaned the heat exchanger, the flame sensor and the sparker. I am at 7000 ft elev.

This seems to happen more frequently when it is cold out. I have no more ideas to throw at it.



Please help if you can. I'm in Mammoth Lakes, California.

Comments

  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    Is this unit on Propane?

    If it is what you have happening is when it gets cold the pressure in your propane tank lowers (boiling point of propane is -44° F) this can sometimes result in poor vaporization of the liquid into vapor and will cause just what you have happening to occur. Discuss this with your propane supplier and also make sure the unit is set up correctly for high altitude (over 2,000 feet).
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Propane?

    Thanks for responding. Yes it is propane. Someone told me that it could be air in the lines.  That couldn't be possible if the boiler has been running for a while right?  It would have purged the air.



    OK the altitude?  Well the instructions dropped the fan rpms for high fire down 250 rpms for 5400ft elevation.  Since I am at 7000 I dropped it another 250rpms.  It seemed to help in the beginning but now its really having trouble keeping lit.  It is just blowing the flame out.  I set the rpms back up and it is still blowing the flame out.  So I did the same conversion to the other fans setting @ 250 rpm increments.  No positive result.  Just a note the BAR gauge reads about 1.2.  What is this?  Gas pressure?



    I am so stumped. I almost want to go out and buy a different brand but $3K could be saved if it is something simple.



    I tried calling Laars but they seem to be hesitant to talk to me.  That is why I am here. 
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    I contacted someone from Laars

    for you they should be getting in touch with you.
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Called LAARS

    Thanks a lot.  I had my favorite plumber come out and look so that they can talk to the techs at Laars. They told them that they cannot do anything more since the boiler is not rated for altitude. Set it to 4500 ft.make the appropriate anaylzer adjustments and hope for the best was LAARS's solution. Not much adjustment was made since it has been done 4 times. Sure enough the error was there this morning.  Reset took care of it.

    Can I vent?  I can't believe a boiler made by a company like LAARS cannot handle this altitude or have any documentation on recommended adjustments for altitude.  Boilers are frequently used in altitude because its cold.  Not a sea level.. I'm sure there is a Mascot technican out there that knows everything about it or what to do in this situation.  Every company has a person like that.  I work in IT and there are document reader people and go beyond documentation to get it work people.  Take a guess who's more successful.  Those cheapy $300 water heaters work here so I am having a hard time believing that no more can be done.  Also, this boiler has been working great for 2 years without any hiccups.   Not a single problem so rated or not it was working. I think the altitude thing is just an excuse. There has to be something else that wears down in time or a dirty screen somewhere in there.       

    Otherwise, I guess I'll bite the bullet and go out and buy a better boiler. $4K in today's economy?  Not good.    

    Anyone have experience with a Lochinvar WBN105 ?  I am eyeing on that.  Rated to 12,000ft. So far, everyone who owns one says they don't even know they have one. 

     

     



         
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for contacting them

    Thanks for going the extra mile for me but no one has conatcted me.  Nor did the California Service Manager call me back.  800 number support refered me to them.  I left 2 messages.

    There has to be something that I missed cleaning in there. I honestly don't think its the altitude.  Like I said it was working like a super hero for 2 years. I can't get myself to give up this easy. 

    Can someone list the components they clean on their regular maintenance calls?    I must be missing something. It has to be something simple.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    I just sent

    them another e-mail hopefully they will contact you soon.
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Email

    Laars emailed me thanks!
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    John, hopefully with what the factory gave you

    to do for adjustments will solve your problem. I am sure you are very talented and capable but it is usually a good idea to get a professional who is familiar with control adjustments to take care of these problems. I hesitate to give too much advice to homeowners on the technical side many times as i do not want them to damage their equipment or worse to get hurt.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    Further comments for those reading

    this posting. It is my opinion that with all of the new high end equipment we are seeing now days that maintenance should be limited to what the instructions list as "homeowner maintenance". As for taking equipment apart to to do the required annual cleaning that should be left to trained professionals. Many times equipment is purchased "on-line" and installed by non professionals. Then the homeowner gets involved and we have a difficult situation to say the least. The manufacturer of that equipment is then relied upon to fix all the problems created by non-professionals.



    I am not saying that is the case with this but just feel it is important to clear the air on these types of things.



    To the best of my knowledge Laars has been on top of this problem and remains so based on e-mail communication I have had with several reps from their company.
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Acknowledged

    There is something said for those ancient coal burners.  The only problem you will have is a misplaced shovel. :D
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Recent Update

    I ordered a new flame sensor.  It arrived today and installed it.  The boiler fired up nicely and got the hot water tank up to temp without a reset.  And this time it got past my daughters afternoon bath and dishwasher cycle without a reset too.  Looks promising.  But, no jinxing it!

    A dependable hot shower in the morning for once will be nice!  Stand by for the update. 
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Jinxed

    Nope same error again.  Same thing is happening.  The flame is blowing out.



    Time to give up since I've been at this for a year now.  Winter is coming.  It has already dusted the peaks last weekend.  Unless someone has anything more to add, I'll go out and buy a Lochinvar. 



    Anyone interested in buying this boiler from me?  I'll sell it cheap.
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Still having faith in LAARS

    Although it seemed to be my last leg, I had a burst of energy mixed with the paranoia of buying a new boiler and still having the same problem.  So, decided to think out of the box and do some simple tests.  Well check this out. I turned on a burner on our cooktop and watched it while I turned the thermostat up to have it make a call to the boiler. Well the flame almost went out(puffing).  I thought "woah"! So I turned all the burners on and went down to reset the boiler.  Absolutely no flame at all.  Nothing. 

    Bad regulator right? 

    I called the gas company to check and replace the regulator. Should be here tomorrow.   1" O.D. gas pipe to the boiler with a 3/4 I.D. flex should be sufficient right?  The cook top is 1/2" I.D.flex. Anything you can share for artlery to have the gas guy change the regulator out.  Just in case they say the regulator is fine, I don't have the credentials to make an argument.  I just need someone to agree with my assessment.    

    Feedback please, thanks!







         
  • bill_105
    bill_105 Member Posts: 429
    Saw this thing...

    weeks ago. It was Mammoth that caught my eye. Fuel deliivery was on my mind. Blow out the lines using air. What do you get, some guy from Reno or Bishop to figre it out??  Careful on those slopes!
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Mammoth

    You know Mammoth? It snowed on the mountain last night. 2foot snow drifts on the mountain bike trails. Yes, you are right... Reno or Bishop..  That is why it makes me sick to here someone tell me that you are a homeowner so we can't help you.  I'll try blowing it out with my compressor - never thought of that.  I only have the 2 things on it so nothing too intense. You are thinking debris blockage right?        



    Thanks Bill. 



    My family is suffering so I need to get passed this quick.  Winter is at my door step.
  • Shmo
    Shmo Member Posts: 14
    Problem Solved

    Well 2 nights with hot water no reset. It was the regulator.  I ruled it out in the beginning since it was new.  It must have been sticky or something.  Higher pressure than the original setting and needed to drop to 0 before it opened.  That pretty much explained why it worked sometimes. 

    With the new regulator set at 11" it doesn't even budge even when I throw everything on at the same time.  I am planning on putting in a inline manometer so that I can monitor this.  I also have to watch it in freeze situations.  Tim mentioned that the propane may not vaporize completely from altitude. 

    Lesson learned to never ignore anything.  Even if it is new. 

    BTW...   For those who were wondering about this boiler at altitude - It doesn't seem to have any issues! 



     

     
This discussion has been closed.