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Recommendations on a good copper fin boiler - Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2
Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,926
in THE MAIN WALL
Hey you'll its been awhile.  Have to quote a million btu copper fin boiler - atmospheric....any suggestions.  Mad Dog
Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Hi Matt!,,

    great to see your post! ;-)

    When you mention "a good copper fin boiler", these come to my mind first!

    http://www.hotwater.com/products/boilers.html

    Take Care old friend.
  • The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
    The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro) Member Posts: 834
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    It's been awhile but....

    I have been least impressed with Lochinvar, teledyene so..so,  however, Raypack really seemed to have its act together at least with the older models I've worked with.  Things like 10 to 1 downturn with well designed burners (on atmospheric), solid construction and also being honest about and addressing the limitations of the copper tube design.   Many companies claimed that copper tubes can run at lower temps than CI... the opposite appears to be true and Raypack never made these exaggerated and untrue claims.  Unfortunately, they are not well represented in my market any more. 
    The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

    Chicago's Steam Heating Expert





    Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
  • eluv8
    eluv8 Member Posts: 174
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    Great Copper Fin Boilers

    If you are looking for a Vertical Copper Fin I would put in a Harsco PK. Thermific or Modufire. The Thermific is on/off or Lo/hi/lo and the Modufire is 5-1 Turndown. Very easy to work on, and really if its installed right not much to go wrong on them. Its not uncommon to find buildings with these boilers that are 15+ years and still running great some with very poor maintenance practices even. It drives me crazy to see some of these service reports on boilers that have gone 4+ years without ever seeing a service on a commercial building.



    The Modufire is 88% due to the 5-1 so it will require Category IV venting. The Thermific is 85% so it is Harsco/PK approved for B-Vent but I still prefer to vent it Category IV as well unless  precautions are taken to ensure that natural draft will help keep it dried out.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,926
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    Thank you fellas

    Have any of you heard of a brand called National Combustion out of Jamaica Queens, Long Island.?   Mad Dog
    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Mathew!!

    Good to see you're still around. Missed your words and wit.



    I concur with BP, Raypak is the best CFT in my years of experience, and even at that, they to will eventually burn themselves up. The lower steel frame assemblies on all CFT boilers suffer degradation from the reflected radiant energy, and expedited refractory tile failure, which leads to additional upper sheet metal component failure.



    I guess so long as all parties concerned are aware of these items, you have nothing to lose, but this is NOT a 50 year boiler. It's more like a 15 year boiler on the outside.



    I have zero experience with the boiler you spoke of...



    Good to see you my friend. Don't be a stranger :-)



    How's the family? Your youngun's must be growing like weeds,



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,294
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    Just so you know...

    ... I don't have a clue about the best boiler unless there is an anode in it.  Simply glad to see you back!



    Yours,  Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,143
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    they have all had good and bad

    years, and models on the market.



    The main ones I have used are Lochinvar, much improved, Laars, Raypak. RBI is another brand that is getting attention.



    As always the support from the dealer, rep, and manufacturer are a big part of the choice.



    hr
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,752
    edited August 2010
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    RE: best copper fin boiler

    Hands down for basic hot water copper fin boiler is AO SMITH HW series boilers. No refractory, simple stainless tube burner, tried and true.  Use a hw 670 and HW 420. These boilers are bullet proof for simplicity. We mainly use them for potable hot water jobs. We have worked on them for 30+ yrs. The no refractory is the big benefit. Refractory board breaks down, the retainer clips and burner racks corrode from heat and fail. All the associated parts get expensive. AO Smith always keeps the coils and hxrs available even 15 to 20 yrs down the road. They work fine for heating but I figure why when we have modcon Prestige boilers available. Good luck, Tim
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177
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    natco

    that brand is used in some laundramats. you can deal direct with manufacturer . located in jamaica.   how goes it bro ?  bob young
  • Henry
    Henry Member Posts: 998
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    CFT

    In tyhe 1,000,000 BTU and more atmospheric, there are only two that stand out: Raypak and RBI. We have installed many of each and some Laars. The Laars don't seem to cuti it as long and the assembly and wiring is amateurish. I have been to their assembly plants as well as most manufacutrers. RBI has the neatest and cleannest assembly. We took a 1.2 million completly apart to replace a Laars that was pourly installed and had the wrong pumps that were also pourly installed. Our guys loved the simplicity  and neat clean wiring. They took it apart and put it together in the space of one day. It also has 4 stages that can be easily controlled by a four stage Tekamar. I will try to post somepictures soon.

    Henry
  • eluv8
    eluv8 Member Posts: 174
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    Am I the only one

    that likes the PK.



    The Modufire is 5-1 and does not need Tekmar with the ENVI control it does everything standard.



    As for simple, take a look how the thermific and modufire are built. Talk about easy to work on. If you have not had the oportunity to open one up yet its a pretty cool design.



    I can pull a burner for cleaning in a couple of minutes. Literally a couple of screws to pull the top off, a union for the gas line, 4 nuts that hold the burner down, spark wire, UV sensor or flame rod unhooked, and your done lift burner straight up and out.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,926
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    Thanks for all the info and comments

    Family is well and growing, thanks.   This boiler must be atmospheric, so that limits many of the models.  I'm still looking.  Thank you again.  Mad Dog
    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
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