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new install of vitodens 200

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ALH_4
ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
in THE MAIN WALL
The biggest issue is that the sensor, which is in the top of the low loss header, is not seeing the supply temperature. It is seeing the return temp. The Vitodens is going to try to heat your return water to what the supply should be. You will burn more fuel as the boiler will likely bounce off the high limit trying to accomplish this. The 26-64 is the appropriate heating-side circulator. When you add an indirect water heater the circulator should be sized according to the technical data manual (26-64 or 26-99 depending on the tank head-loss specs) and should pump into the DHW return fitting on the right-hand side of the boiler. There are two more fittings to the inside of where the heating pipes enter the boiler. They have hexagonally shaped brass caps on them now. You will need check valves on the discharge side of both the DHW and heating circulators.

Be sure the black plastic cap on the air vent on the boiler is closed after the air is purged from the system.

As far as egos are concerned, that's difficult. Perhaps you can find the piping schematics in the installation manual and see if he will follow them. He piped the boiler more for a conventional boiler than for a high head loss condensing boiler. It's a different way of thinking that takes some getting used to. If nothing else, pull the sensor out of the well in the low loss header and strap it to the iron pipe entering the system circulator and wrap some insulation around it.

-Andrew

Comments

  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    vitodens 200 install

    Hi,
    My name is Garry and I'm just a mere homeowner. My wife and purchased a Victorian in August of 2004 of 1906 vintage. The house was heated by a KEWANEE boiler of unknown vintage, which was putting out 219,000 btu. In our first heating season we spend over $4500 on heating oil and that was just to heat the first floor. The second floor has electric baseboard heat as the radiators were taken out by preveious owners, due to them freezing. Just a few pictures of install. The old beast was 1500 lbs.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    The house has 1700 sq ft of basement, first and second floor, and third floor attic of approximate 1200 sq ft. There is no insulation except in the ceiling of the attic between the second floor and attic. 8'6" ceiling in basement, 10 ft ceilings first floor, 9 ft second floor and attic is unfinished with vaulted ceilings. The house was built in 1906 for $13000, by a local pharmacist. I plan to blew in cellulose within the next couple of weeks. Just thought I would share some of the pictures as I have been lurking on the wall, since I purchased the house and have gain some valuable informations from others. I live in Benton Harbor Michigan. I'll be happy to answer any questions, and a big thanks to Dan for creating this site.
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
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    What a splendid looking home!

    Garry, you should try and shrink the size of the image that gets displayed. I'm surprised to see a conventional expansion tank, brand new even, installed with a Vito. I'm also surprised to see the indirect piped to the other side of the LLH.

    They sure don't build houses with those kind of refined good looks anymore.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    If someone call tell me how to I'll be happy to reduce the file size. Thanks for the compliment, my wife and I fell love with the home and are attempting to bring it back to its finer days.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi Uni R,

    The hot water heater is an electric, I didn't have the budget to get an indirect this year.
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
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    My bad...

    I was looking quickly at the pix and seeing 4 copper pipes going down to them. What size is the Vito?
  • Jason_15
    Jason_15 Member Posts: 124
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    Garry

    Wow, that is indeed an awesome looking house!! Please post more pics as you make changes. I noticed in the first picture that you have a 20 lb. LP gas cylinder in the basement. PLEASE get that out of the house! It is dangerous and unlawful to be in there. You don't want to torch that grand old house!
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi Uni R,

    The Vito is a WB2 15-60.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi Jason,

    The 20 lb cylinder is empty, but I have taken your advise and removed from the basement.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi,

    Just a couple of before and after pix of the carriage house in back. It is 26 ft by 45 ft, with the original one holer attached to the back.
  • Enough
    Enough Member Posts: 14
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    Condensate

    Very nice home, Garry. I am curious about your condensate going into your drain stack. Is there a lining in the drain line that is resistant to corrosion? I was under the impression that the condensate is corrosive and needs to be neutralized before going into cast iron drain.

    Can anyone back me up or correct me?

    Steve

  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,981
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    Garry,

    Nice home, nice install but do yourself a favor and get rid of that compression tank.

    With the automatic vent on the boiler, it will be nothing but a problem for years to come.

    Like everyone else, I'd like to see the progress of the house mods. You've already started on the right foot by getting a quality condensing boiler.It LOVES big radiators!!!AND WILL REDUCE YOUR HEATING COSTS DRAMATICALLY. Keep us informed. Best of luck too! Chris
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
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    A simple and inexpensive Bell & Gossett Air-Trol fitting on that tank will prevent gravity circulation into the tank--thus the air stays in the tank. With that fitting that old (but nicely repainted) tank is likely to many times outlast the multiple bladder-style tanks it would likely take to replace.

    BTW. EXCEPTIONAL looking home! I don't however envy your paint job. $$$$$$$$$ because of hours, hours, hours, hours, hours, hours, hours, hours of prep work.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
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    Garry,

    I just wanted to congratulate another mere homeowner on the splendid home you purchased and the wonderful things you are doing for it. You're doing all the right things, insulating the place and putting in a high-efficiency heating system to allow you to sit back and relax in a comfortable home that is filled with the kinds of beautiful architectual details that are hard to come by these days.

    The old boiler you removed is a remarkable beast, as is the Vitodens that is replacing it. If you're running the condensate down a cast-iron drain pipe, consider running it though the Viessmann neutralizer first or (much less expensively) a bucket with crushed marble or similar materials. All the best with your project!

    Lastly, prior to posting pictures here, consider downsizing them to 600 pixels or less, that way they'll fit in the viewing screen that Dan has set up for us at Invision.
  • Andrew Hagen (ALH)
    Andrew Hagen (ALH) Member Posts: 165
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    A few suggestions

    The boiler pump must pump into the boiler return, which is the fitting on the right as you face the boiler. The supply on the Low Loss Header should be the upper fitting. The Low Loss Header is upside-down, which is fine but the air vent is now on the bottom. As suggested, an air vent near the top of the low loss header would be a good idea. I would agree with using a diaphragm expansion tank rather than the compression tank. Any plans for an indirect water heater? You have one of the most efficient gas burning appliances in the world so it makes sense to use it for as many purposes as possible. Also, as suggested previously, the condensation neutralization kit would be a good idea for corrosion reasons. Is the boiler pump a 26-64 or 26-99?

    You have made an excellent choice in the Vitodens. With a few system modifications it should give you many years of service with very few problems.

    -Andrew
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
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    heating

    Gary nice house and nice choice of heating equipment.

    On a more serious note.

    -Andrew is right I beleive. the boiler is not piped correctly. I fear this may have been the installers first and he didnt do his home work. Have this corrected ASAP.

    Good luck with your project.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi Andrew,

    Thanks for the suggestion, this was the installer first for the vitodens. I will talk with them about the issue you brought up about the boiler pump, pumping into the return side. I had already questioned them about the condensate issue, and the cast iron drain. He stated that the condensate was about the acidity of orange juice and wouldn't be a problem. If I have to I'll deal with the neutralizer bucket myself. Thanks again for the input.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi ALH,

    I plan on having an indirect installed next year as I needed to use the remaining cash to blow in insulation. The boiler pump is a Grundfos 26-64. What you're saying about the LLH being upside down makes since, how do I get the contractor to change it without having hurt egoes.

    Is the way the boiler pump is installed approved by Viessmann and if not will it affect it warranty or performance.
  • Garry
    Garry Member Posts: 11
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    Hi Mike T,

    The tank is brand new, the contractor suggested that the bladder style tanks would have been too small the the system.
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
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    Does it have an Air-Trol fitting? It will be in the bottom of the tank at the system connection. Such will prevent gravity circulation from the system to the tank and will keep the air in the tank where it belongs!
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