Emission free combustion?

Mark Hunt

Take a <a href=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15484654/from/ET/>look.</a>

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

Anyone? (nm)



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J.C.A._3

Very interesting.

I'd like to know just how much lower is the flame temperature, and will it make the same amount of heat in the same size space....as effeciently as that glass fire chamber. JCA

Couderay

Yes very interesting no doubt what that could for greenhouse gasses.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Here's a much more in-depth abstract regarding "SPRF combustion".

Note: NOx approx. 1 ppm; CO < 10 ppm

Viessmann Vitodens Matrix burner: NOx 8.9 ppm, CO 5.5 ppm

SPRF combustion promises a lower temp flame that essentially collapses into itself. Does it really sound much different than this? It does however look to be relatively simple and inexpensive, but just having a good, clean fire doesn't mean that you've efficiently transfered its energy...

Perry_2

Hmmm...

OK, for starters I don't have time tonight to read the abstract that Mike posted.

However, just focusing on "emmisions" is only one point. The other point is turbine efficiency. Did you note in the first post where they mention that this process would be applicable to jet engines and combustion turbines.

What they don't tell you is that the designers have for years been pushing combustion temperatures up to improve turbine efficiency (and have pushed combustion temperatures to the limits of metal alloys - and always looking for a new alloy that will handle higher temperatures). Using a lower temperature flame will reduce turbine efficiency.

This brings up the possibility that yes - you can reduce emmisions, but at the cost of reduced efficiency which requires you to burn more fuel to get the same output (i.e, you can cut emmisions in half, but need to burn twice as much fuel = no net reduction in emissions at a substaintial increase in fuel cost). In the end - are you actually generating less polution or more? This is not the first technology that has come along with reducing emisions by reduction in combustion temperature. Many of the previous ones did not make much of a practical splash because they reduced production efficiency so much that they were actually counter-productive. Is that the case here? Time will tell.

I do note that comparing the Vitodens burner against a jet engine burner is not exactly fair because it is a completely different application in desired end temperatures.

Perry

Mark Hunt

Perry


I e-mailed you this story earlier. Hope you got it.

The inventor does say that he lowers NOx emissions by combusting at a lower temp.

I have a friend that is retired GE gas turbine engineer. Years ago he and I had conversations about power plants having to comply with stricter emission regulations and the target was to lower NOx. To do this they had to lower the combustion temp. I'm not an engineer and I do not play one on TV, but I understand physics enough to grasp the methodology. By spraying water into the combustion chamber, they sought to lower the flame temp. This lowered the NOx and SOx emissions. BUT!!! As you stated, that lower flame temp HAS to have a down side. If I am heating liquid water to change state to a gas in order to produce PRESSURE, AND LOTS OF IT, to get a generator to move (break-away pressure?) how is it more efficient to lower the available amount of BTU's to make this happen?

Me thinks that this has NOTHING to do with efficiency and EVERYTHING to do with "global warming". Looks good on paper, but in fact it is no better than what we have now.

For you folks that recommend oil as a premier fuel due to it's higher BTU content, this technology negates it. Lower the flame temp to reduce NOx and SOx, you lower the "horse power" of the fuel.

So I do appreciate your take on this Perry. Anything you may add will be helpful. THANKS!

I also sent this to Constantin and Brad White. Would like to see their input on this as well.

Mark H

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