Radiant piping on W-M with Hydro Air

Boston

zones requiring different water temps. I am assuming the radiant floor should be a different temp water than the air handlers.

I am used to running constant circulation off a "standard" WM CI Boiler. I am going to call the rep at Viega and see what he says.

Boston

Radiant Pipeing with W_M Ultra w/ Hydro Air

This diagram is exactly what I want to do - except I would pipe off the secondary of the w-m ultra.

Why couldn't I use constant circulation on the radiant circuit controling the radiant mixing valve with a TACO i-series mixing valve with outdoor reset?

Isn't that real simple? Radiant is floor warming only, the hydo air will play catch up via the thermostat, the radiant will just chug along and kick in whatever BTU's the mixing valve supply based on the taco i-series reset curve.

Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Diagram was from Ted G, not sure who originally supplied it. The ultra pri/sec is new to me, this is how I would pipe off a normal boiler.

Thanks for the help.

Andy_14

I would like to hear the answer also as I am doing something similar except the floor will be all of the heating unless it can't keep up. If the floor ends up not doing the job by itself then the air handler will be added at the stubs. A temering valve would have to be added before the circ on the floor secondary.

Ted_9

WM ultra

If you are piping a condensing boiler, then you don't want to use the diagram I found. Use the diagrams in the WM Ultra manual.
As far as I know, the I series mixing valve doesn't do constant circulation. Sure constant circ is a great thing, but it just wasn't designed like that.

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Weezbo

the I series has a reset ratio

that baically means for every degree the temp goes down you set the parameters of change...

Ted_9

constant circ

Well you can pipe it the way it shows in the manual. Then after your closely spaced tee for the high temp stuff, another set of closely spaced tees for the radiant. Then, I think you can use the Viega basic controller for mixing and it may work like constant circ. I
m not sure since I haven't used that one, just the Tekmar, which the Viega control is basically a Tekmar.

Maybe some here has a better diagram for you.

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Boston

Ted, that's what I am thinking...

I will call Viega and post thier answer.

Mitch_6

I have talked to a Weil Mclain training

rep about this once, if you have alot of radiant and want to take advantage of the single set curve you can pipe the radiant off the IP manifold then take the high temp off the DHW branch and use relay to fool the boiler.

Best to contact WM on exactly how they want it but I had asked the rep if they can set up the boiler with two heat demand contacts one high temp and one for low temp applications he understood said they are working on it and above was what to do in the meantime.

Mitch S.

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Boston

Thanks Mitch

I definately want to take advantage of the Ultra's outdoor reset for the air handlers - they are oversized units designed to operate at a wide range of temps.

But I beleive the radiant will need to be tempered down from where the air handlers are operating - for example on a real cold day the air handlers could be at 160 - i don't beleive the wirsbo climate panel will be near that temp ever.

I doubt the floor will take much more than 100 but that's a guess. we have climate panel/ 1/4 inch hardie backer and then tile. We used icynene insualtion under all radiant areas so that will help drive the heat up.

clammy

mitch is correct

I have also seen this layout for a single curve system but had concerns about run time and would the radiant or low temp loop require mixing at high temp calls and what about run time for high temp load and does the domestic water have priority over the high temp heat ,just asking .I know that with HTP vision 3 set using belimo valves this is possible it gives i believe up to 4 different temperture with 4 seperate curves i just wonder when some one will have this avaiable for all system with 0-10 mdv signal to commucate with the burner control,like one system that you configer to different manafacture equipment i guess X mas is on the way and i can dream about it,butit would be a grand set up at that ,any thoughs about that mitch just wondering and also looking for input or do i day dream about delat t to much peace and good luck clammy

Andy_14

You are correct, the floor will need to be tempered down.

Mitch_6

Your really should have some

protection on the radiant either injection or mixing.

Keep in mind on the ultra if the temperature rises to fast you can get a soft lockout.

The air handlers typically get minimum 140 it all depends on were your load is I did a 25000 house cellar was radiant, second was radiant and flat panel the only hydro was the first so my efficiency was best spent on the radiant / flat panel.

Mitch S.

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Boston

I will speak with Viega and W-M

But I think the way to go is to assume the water in the secondary piping is good input for a mixing circuit. I will use another outdoor reet on the 3 way valve running the mmixing circuit and use constant circulation for all radiant. Since the radiant is not doing the real heating work, it just needs to be warm. I figure the water in the secondary should always be "hot enough" to run the radiant. I can't see it ever going much below 100. And that would be a day where you would not want much heat coming from the floors anyway.

This is similar to what I have done with "normal boilers" but there I know I am taking 180 water and tempering it down quite a bit.

I have used the viega "non-electric outdoor reset" control for a real low tech way to modulate the mix temperature according to outdoor temps. It works well unless you hae extreme conditions, like no sun etc where you can reach with the sensor.