Dear modcon mfgrs (GrandPAH)

Dave Yates (PAH)

beat me over my thick-skulled head for a long time before I was willing to retire my dumb-bell liquid fairly accurate combustion analyzers. Not much incentive to lay out more than a grand for the more accurate electronic versions and, besides which, they looked like a high-maint (read: expense I didn't have). No perceived value - except for the drive to want the best for our customers. I finally caved & retired the colored dumb-bells.

There was no looking back. I was immediately hooked and our techs loved the accuracy - as did our customers. We purchased several more analyzers to keep up with our own new testing policy.

The majority of contractors still don't see the value and as long as industry leaders tell them they don't need an analyzer, they won't ever see any value. People will always tend to believe what they want to hear & hearing you don't need an expensive diagnostic tool in order to sell a product is not something that should be used as a sales tool.

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Dave Yates (PAH)

promoting professionalism

While some are promoting the use of combustion analyzers, a few are telling contractors they aren't necessary and to rely on the built-in sensors to lock out the unit when combustion goes south.

Instead, why not present techs, their bosses and consumers with an added incentive to do the job correctly (with documenting the combustion) by giving them an added warranty bonus or access to extended warranties - with a printed analysis from the test performed. Your equipment will last longer, your liability would be reduced, the installers liability gets reduced and the consumer has better protection and enhanced fuel savings. Everyone wins.

Hearing a presenter/rep telling a group of contractors that checking combustion isn't necessary and that the only service required is to "check under the hood" for standing water "if it's dry, you can close it up and go home" does our industry a dis-service. Now I've heard the same mantra echoed back via a contractor in another state - by another rep from the same manufacturer.

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Constantin

Hear Hear!

Dave Yates (PAH)

Stand by

No doubt the silence will be deafening.

Sell more equipment Vs. sell less, but promote this modcon industry right so it does better in the long run. Then again, maybe they've finally built a mechanical wonder that never needs any service, comes factory pre-set to operate at peak eff under all conditions - after being shipped, dropped, roughly handled, etc. - across the country. And one that can't be adversely affected by venting oddities, piping irregularities or wiring mis-steps where the factory gurus could quickly see on a returned print-out from an analyzer, at a glance, that things are not up to snuff. As they say, miracles never cease.

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Brian

Combustion

Couldn't agree more.I used to install one of the manufactures that you speak of.There was no opening for a combustion probe.I would tap the vent and then put in a stainless plug.I no longer use that make. I've switched to the GB's that does accommodate for a combustion probe.A extended warranty incentive is grest idea.

Thanks,
Dobber

Guy_6

Listening

Back at my former position for a Mod/Con mfg, I promoted combustion analyzers as a powerful tool for a service tech.. Now, out of support and into sales, I keep a Wohler in the truck with me at all times. It is surprising how many people will actually look into getting an analyzer once they are shown how much it can benefit their work. In my case, I use it for troubleshooting and for peace of mind. Wednesday I was in Central Mass with a customer who had converted one of our Mod/cons and was concerned about the accuracy of the conversion. With the Wohler, I was able to show him that the boiler had remained within spec through the conversion. I was also able to leave a record of how the boiler was running THEN, so if there is an issue later (there is ongoing construction) we will have a basis to work off of. Another benefit is that both the contractor and I will sleep at night knowing that all of the bases have been covered. Streamlined combustion is the wave of the future, and it will only become more complex as time goes on. It's best to begin learning NOW and stay on top of the learning curve.

Dave Yates (PAH)

Covering your ****-sets

as I calls it(G). Legally admissable as evidence too.

Look at what happened with FVIR once some bloviator in DC realized there was an issue and decided the gubbermint should think about sticking their foot up the arse of the water heater industry. Some day, one of them will notice this issue and its related problems and then they'll decide how we will cover our customers' ****-sets. Our modcon mfgrs should be leading the industry, not letting the industry lead them. Chust leaves the import doors wide open.

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Plumdog_2

I've been to about six different Boiler manufacturer's classes to learn setup and installation; ALL of them said use of a Combustion Analyser was mandatory during commisioning and maintenance. Which ones are not? Can we have a hint?

rich pickering

Don't want to hijack this thread

but it is my understanding that the manufacturers are the ones that proposed FVIR due to liability and litigation costs. They went to the feds in the US and Canada and requested the changes be manditory so no manufacturer would gain an advantage by not converting.

Dave Yates (PAH)

no problem

Not hijacking anyway since it was already referenced. Mike Gordon at Bradford White told me that the government was about to pounce on the industry and that this caused the mfgrs to agree to work jointly on FVIR, rather than having the government dictate the rules.

I'd rather not point fingers - yet. It could be the reps in question were speaking their own mantra and not getting that from the home office. The one I heard, first hand, I can access again and talk with privately. I held my tongue during the presentation as it wouldn't serve any purpose to embarrass anyone during their presentation. I'll get my shot in front of the group soon, so I can correct the problems without a confrontation.

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rich pickering

I'm not so sure it is a bad thing other than the price increase. There is a kid down the street who was badly burned and disfigured from gas being stored next to the w/h.

My info came from a Bradord factory rep when they were doing the roadshow introducing the new FVIR.

As much as I hate to admit it, sometimes people do need to be protected from themselves.

And no, I don't always wear my seatbelt.

Dave Yates (PAH)

probably not

a bad thing, I'll agree, but perhaps it should have been an option with codes dictating which installs would need to be FVIR compliant.

One thing learned during the flash-over tests: when the tanks were set on the floor, a fire would occur; when the burners were elevated to a min of 18" above the floor, an explosion would occur with much more disasterous results.

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EBEBRATT-Ed

Lets face it. The modern equipment is much more efficient. To be practical this efficiency comes about from making changes to the equipment to allow tigh.ter flue passages, less air, more efficient combstion. The equipment has less "fudge" and less "room for error".

This will require combustion testing equipment and anyone who dosent think so better get out of the business before their own good because they could kill someone.

jmho
Ed