Of Pipes and Heating Efficiency

Brad White_133

the very low pressures at which the system should be operating. Packing the same amount of steam in a smaller pipe will increase the pressure.... You want to run it low...

No economic justification- if it were oversized think of it as another way to dry the steam.

Gino_3

Reducing pipes to increase efficiency ?

have a 2 family house with a steam radiator system that runs off Gas. I had my boiler serviced by a plumber last year as some of the wires were disconnected and it wouldn't startup . The plumber suggested a way for me to save on my Heating bills. He adviced me that if we were to change out the pipe leading from boiler that extends the length of the basement from 2 inch to 1 1/2 we would get better effiencency as the house would heat up faster reducing the time the boiler is on; something about pressues leveraging. will this work?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The size of the steam main is mostly guided by the amount of connected radiation (size & number of radiators). Unless a significant amount of radiation has been removed, it's unlikely that the original designer used a larger-than-necessary main.

If the piping is not insulated, do so unless you're using the bare pipes to heat the basement. If you are and the basement is still overly warm then start adding insulation to the pipes.

Barring unusual circumstance I can't imagine the expense of replacing a main to be justified.

Steamhead (in transit)

Gino, instead of that

I'd make sure a properly sized main vent is installed at or near the end of that 2-inch pipe. This will make the main fill with steam in about a minute if done right. How long is the 2-inch pipe?

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Gino_3

Of pipes`

the pipe run my full basement about 60 feet.

Gino_3

Reply

Thank you , I will look into the insulation. I remember him saying that the pipe were there from when there were charcaol burner.

Steamhead (in transit)

That's a lot of pipe!

Vent the end of the main with two Gorton #2 vents. This will get the steam to the end in a super hurry, even out the heat between the front and the back, and lower your fuel consumption.

If there is no main vent there now, you may have to drill and tap 1/2" pipe thread into the pipe, one hole for each vent.

If you can't find Gorton vents in your area, try State Supply: www.statesupply.com .

The #2 vent is not cheap, but is the right part for the job.

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Gino_3

Thanks

This plumber had me excited , he told me he would even run a test before and after he changed the pipes to inch and half , so I would see the results. He said right now It takes about 1 hour and forty minutes for me to heat up the house and get to 5 lbs of pressure, he said would get a watch and verify this with me before he installed the new pipes. Then he said he would perform the same time test after he installed the smaller pipes and i would notice it would get to my desired tempeture and 5lbs of pressure in just 30 to 40 minutes reducing the time my boiler would be on saving me on gas. Though he was charging me 3,000 at the time to do it , i found a plumber who would do it for 2000. I was really considering it , because twice last year my heating bills were over 1,200 dollars (, even after i installed a digital thermostat and set the temps low. hence I paid high bills and indured unconfortable tempetures in my house, my tenant even complained at night it was too cold. So to me I would do anything in reason to get my heating bills down and house more confortable. The second plumber who said he do the job for 2000 wasn't convinced the science of the first plumber would work, so he recommend a new boiler, if i wanted better effiency. He says the new boiler would be more effiencent with electric ignition pilot and built with effeiceny in mind as opposed to my 15 year old boiler. I could have him look into installing this part you suggested. I also consider getting honeywells retro fit electric ignition pilot system, to keep my current boiler as 4,000 for a new one is a bit steep. how would you guys recommend i proceed?

Thanks soo much for all your help and listening ears , and for bearing with my typos

D107

find a steam specialist

homeowner here. You can take what the pros here have told you to the bank. Seeing your last post I am concerned about letting any of these guys touch your system. If they looked at it and didn't suggest the main vents and didn't know the pressure could probably be set to no more than 2 lbs (which would also save you tons of money) and suggested those schemes to you then that's far from helping you. It may be that a new boiler would be more efficient, but if you tell us what town and state you live in there may be steam specialists near you who could look over your system. Your rads may not be vented properly and there could be other things. Hard to believe that these plumbers could put in a new boiler correctly, based on their advice so far to you.

You can check the site for the section on steam problems and look into buying some of Dan Holohan's books on steam which will quickly educate you.

Good luck,

David

Christian Egli_2

Five o'clock rush hour

The purpose of the distribution pipes is to move the heat from the boiler to the radiator, just like street and interstate spurs move traffic from downtown to the suburbs. Which of the two do you think is the fastest and most efficient? the multi lane expressway or the small side streets?

Of course, what you want is a six lane thoroughfare going right through your basement; keep the big pipes, they are positively better at moving steam the fastest.

You're messing around a venting problem.

Large piping systems need all the adequate venting you can think of. Work your plumbers on getting you a comprehensive venting and trapping solution and spend your good money on vents and traps.

Then, you'll be able to run at low steam pressures (0.5 ~ 1 PSI). Running at 5PSI is not the sign of a healthy air venting situation.

Right now, your system is operating with air locks everywhere. The exits for the traffic flow are all messed up and the cars are piling up going nowhere; and you're thinking: hmmm, my interstates are getting all jammed up to a stand still in about 30 minutes, I'll bet if we force all the traffic on the smaller side streets, we'll get ourselves a total jam in much less than 30 minutes. Efficient, everyone will be ecstatic...

The goal is not to reach stand still in the shortest amount of time, not in my city at least, the goal is to reach total and balanced venting the quickest.

In that regard, insulating the mains helps you a long way. You'll be home in 8 minutes.

Weezbo

i tend to think insulation is in the cards.

when it is a steam installation go large

Gino_3

Thanks

I just need to know how to get the gordon vent on? Where does it go ?

Steamhead (in transit)

It goes onto the main

after the last radiator takeoff. Is there a vent there now? If so, it may be mounted atop a pipe nipple up in the floor joists where it's hard to see.

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Joe_79

Same quest

Hey Frank thanks for your help. I'm gonna look again right now for those vents. Sorry I thought you were dan, reading all his books. You are helping me on another issue, bad pipe job. I had a pro here and he told me little except I need 2 gorton #2 on my mains not exactly where and a boiler clean ( hopefully wet return for $1400 and I could change the rad vents myself. And his almost $300 consultant fee could be applied to the work. Though i did not feel his sincerety.