Snow melt question

[Deleted User]

A VERY LARGE heat exchanger to keep the glycol from getting into the pool. Contact a good designer with experience in swimmming pool loads and experience with heat exchanger sizing to make sure it gets done right.

ME

Wayco Wayne_2

What is an

appropriate water temp for a snow melt system? WW

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brucewo1b

I think 130 deg is concidered max to prevent stressing the concrete

Wayco Wayne_2

What's the

lowest water temps that would work?

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[Deleted User]

Depends...

on your panel loads, which are dictated by desired surface temperatures at given ambient temps with given snow temps and given wind loading on the panel.

In Denver, we use 150 btu/sq ft per hour which will provide approximately 35 to 40 degree F surface with 0 degrees F outside and wind at 10 MPH. That requires 140 degree F temperatures.

You can design around a 20 to 30 degree delta T, or conversely, 40 degrees F with a 4 way reversing valve changing the direction of flow every 10 minutes. (same as a 20 degree split going one way)

Why do you ask Wayne? Do you have a Wirsbo Snowmelt Design book?

ME

Wayco Wayne_2

I ask because

I'm cheap. I have a sidewalk at my house that I put 2 loops of 5/8 pex in when we poured. I have insultarp underneath. We had a small snow yesterday. I had been running at 120 degrees which removed the snow easily, so I started thinking, (trouble) if my munchkin could run at lower temperatures I could get better efficiencys, so I have been experimenting with different temps. So far I think lower is not better. WW

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[Deleted User]

We're all cheap....

As previoulsy stated, there ae many variables. For what its worth, I was told by a reputable person that there is a large drive way in the mountains that has 35 degree F spring water flowing through it and the owner has never touched a snow shovel. I suspect there are times that it takes days to clear the drive with the snowmelt system, but it aint costing him NOTHING...

Turn it down till it quits working, then turn it up one notch :-)

That, or develop a controller that can look at all the variables and make a decision based on real time considerations. Wind, snow temp, air temp, surface temp, pickup load. Kind of like an outdoor reset for snow melt. I know the tekmar 600 series controllers change their target slab temps, maybe THEY can do the control development... Mikey, got your ears on?

ME

Tim Doran

Straight Forward

A more advanced control seems pretty straight forward. As Mark stated we can easily track lots of variables like wind speed, wind direction, outdoor temp, snow fall rate, Rh, slab surface temp, delta t, fluid temp, etc. Once we know the outdoor temp and snow fall rate we have a good idea of the water content and thus the heat of fusion required to get it from snow to vapor. The limitation of such a control would be the abilty of the slab to react in a timely manner.

Tim D.

Mad Dog_2

The snowmelt system that Mark Eatherton designed

for us a few years ago maxes out at about 140. I think the change is so gradual it would be hard to "stress" the slab. This will be the 3rd winter it has been running (3rd or 4th can't remember) We have done a lot of experimenting and tweaking to see performance parameters. AT first, we set the slab temp at 40 degrees just to assure proper melting. The last few seasons has had alot of snow so we got to test alot. I then put it down to 38 - still fine. 36- fine. 35 some small areas iced. 34 more icy areas. We now keep it set for about 36. You can't find a better designer of a snowmelt system than Mark. He was great Mad Dog

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Jim_65

Snowmelt

I agree Mad Dog! I count my blessing everyday that I have the opportunity to learn from him EVERYDAY! It sure is nice to learn something the correct way the first time instead of relearning or trying to forget my bad habits.

tritto

snow melt with pool heater

can any one tell me how to pipe a snow melt system to a pool heater i also would like to heat the pool in the summer months. thanks

[Deleted User]

Aw shucks guyz....

You're makin' me blush :-)

Glad that system is working out for your customer Matt, and more importantly, I'm glad that you and your company learned something from the experience as well. If you hadn't noticed, Jim is my right hand man in the office, and he's doing one heck of a job.

Keep up the great work guys.

ME