Comm'l Steam - DF

Christian Egli_2

Those traps do look like Marsh and Marsh still exists and I don't think there is any direct relation to Hoffman and most certainly not from a manufacturing point of view.

80 years old is a nice age to retire. It's impressive that at least half of them (a guess) might still have been good. Thanks Dan F for the nice pictures.

Dan Foley

Commercial Steam

We completed this job last week in a 22 unit apartment building in Old Town Alexandria. The building was built in 1921 and is heated by a 2-pipe vapor system. I'm not sure what type it was but the original traps were No. 1 Marsh Reflux traps. We replaced all the traps, F&T's and radiator valves in the building. -DF

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Dan Foley

Tear Out

The existing Weil-McLain 68 was only about 12 years old but was in poor condition due to lack of maintenance. It appears to have been dry fired as the back section was replaced a year ago and most of the sections were leaking at the seals. -DF

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Dan Foley

New

We installed a Burnham V-908 with a Beckett CF burner. We increased the header from 4" to the manufacturer recommended 6" header. We also re-piped the boiler feed pump that was added over the winter in an attempt to fix severe water hammer. The water hammer was caused by bad traps so the pump did not resolve the issue. -DF

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Dan Foley

Controls

The old boiler was controlled by a standard thermostat in the 2nd floor hallway. Needless to say, the results were unsatisfactory. When I surveyed this job in February, half the tenants were freezing and the other half had their windows open. They were filling two 275 gallon tanks about every two weeks!

We installed a tekmar 269 control and replaced all of the radiator valves to allow the tenants to fine tune. We also installed a lo-hi-lo burner controlled through a vapor-stat to allow the boiler to "simmer" once the steam gets around to provide long cycles with even temperatures throughout. I would be disappointed if the fuel usage does not drop 20-30%. -DF

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Constantin

That's some serious surgery!

I like the drop header you guys welded up a lot though I am surprised that it will work well being as close to the top of the boiler as it is.

Your new control strategy ought to save them at least 30%, once the window-damper control mechanism has been eliminated.

The superior workmanship combined with the beefy header should result in dry steam, long life, etc. I just hope that they take better care of it in the future.

BTW, the fire extinguisher they had down there is really cute compared to the monster it was supposed to tame.

Dan Foley

Header

Constantin,


Take a closer look at the boiler. We have almost 30" from the water line to the top of the drop header. -DF

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George_10

Dan

Love the installation pictures.

Be very interesting to see what kind of fuel savings this client of yours enjoys in the coming heating season. If your correct on the %, this job will very quickly pay for itself.

I believe that one decal on one of your pictures will do great things for us. Thanks.

George

Steamhead (in transit)

That was a Marsh Vapor system

which was pretty standard Vapor. It probably had a Return Trap originally, which the previous contractor couldn't figure out so he put the pump in.

Nice work. Are the owners going to track oil consumption on this job?

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Paul Fredricks_3

Nice

Very impressive. I'm not familiar with the drop header. Is there info on HeatingHelp about the design and theory?

Dan Foley

Marsh

Frank,

I figured you would know what type of system this is. Thanks for the compliment. The building owner will track fuel usage corrected for degree days next winter. I'll post the results. -DF

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Dan Foley

Drop Header

Paul,

Thanks for the kind words. Do a search of "Drop Headers" on the wall - there has been plenty of discussion here. Also check out the library. Here is a link:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/library.cfm#Steam Piping

-DF

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clammy

dfdfm again

Dan Foley does fine work again ,beautiful job once again dan you have one top notch crew ,love that drop header and the slightly welded 6 in header fine work really like the low water cut off piping also right to the book top notch but i would never except to see anything less then perfection from you and your crew of craftmens.You guys truely rock the pipes with old world pride and craftmanship nothing like dry syeam to heat thosesapartments .great post peace and good luck clammy

Paul Fredricks_3

Oh

So if you can't get the height you need from the water line to the header, a drop header might give you what you need.

Right?

[Deleted User]

Neat work Dan-o.

Poor 88 Weil never had a chance. Header reduced in the run. System risers in the wrong place. Insufficient height from water line to header. No routine maintenance apparent. And. When flue gases leaked around the burner plate, furnace cement to the rescue. Seems forced draft is an unknown quantity. Can't blame the elastomer seals for this one.

Please, please, please. Sell those folks a real service agreement. Even flushing the 63 & 150 once a month would be more than they had before.

Cactus Cantina this month?

Steamhead (in transit)

Not only that

but if the boiler uses two or more risers to the header, a drop header is much easier to put together.

"Steamhead"

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Mad Dog_2

NICE!!!!!!!

job and strategy,....of course they are gonna save big $$$. Way to go, Dan. Mad Dog

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Christian Egli_2

Drop dead gorgeous steam install

DDG for short. Thanks for the picture show. It's too bad the residents will have to wait until next winter to enjoy their steam, unless we have a blizzard in July. We can hope.

Out of shear curiosity, how badly damaged were the old traps and F&T? How many just died of simple old age vs. suffer a violent water hammer pounding? Did many of them loose their pointed valve? What brand or type did you replace them with?

The Marsh traps have such elaborate looks, they are irresistible. I further think they resist water hammer quite well but the venting rate is on the low end (from Gill and Pajek Venting charts). Installing anything else would give you mo- venting, enough to make Pat Linhardt happy.

But I think, for sure, we're all happy with what you did.

Thanks again.

David Sutton_6

Dan ...

Thats a very good looking job, please tell your guys it looks great , nice and neat you run a good crew!!!David

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Unknown

First

I have to say , WOW . You and your crew amaze me with every new set of new job pics . How heavy was that prefab steam header ?

I think what Constantin was wondering is how low can the drop be on a header before performance issues will arise . Can any water back out of the boiler and into the main through the equalizer pipe if the drop header is too low ?

Excellent job Dan and crew .

Constantin

Good Stuff!

I'm more used to seeing boilers where the water line is closer to the top of the unit than in this one. As usual, this is a very nice job and thank you for sharing it. I didn't see the vapostats and the Tekmar until after I wrote my post and wanted to congratulate you on the very clean work with them also. Cheers!

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

question on controls

Hi Dan,

Excellent job and thanks for posting the pics!

I have a question on the tekmar 269, which we sell quite a few of here in Cincinnati for apartment jobs like this. I notice in the picture of the building controls, to the right of the 269 is what looks like a tekmar programmable t-stat. Can you explain what it is and its function? Do you have any indoor sensors installed in the apartments for feedback to the 269? Or are you using one of their 500 series t-stats with a remote sensor?

I love the 269 and am always looking for ways to use it more effectively. Thanks for any info you can share.

Best regards, Pat

Dan Foley

Traps

Here are a couple of photos of the Marsh traps we removed. Almost all of the traps in the building were original (80+ years old). I think they earned their retirement!

We replaced the traps with Hoffman 17-c's and the radiator valves with Hoffman #85 forged brass valves. -DF

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Dan Foley

Controls

Patrick,

What looks like a tekmar thermostat is actually a tekmar timer that controls the occupied-unoccupied feature of the 269. We drop the building to a lower temperature from 12 midnight to 5am. -DF

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Dan Foley

Comments

Thank you for all of the positive comments posted here. All of the credit for this project should go to Brian Golden and his able crew. He finished this project on time without any problems.

I had the easy job - get the contract signed and pick up the check. By the way, I got this project through my Find-A-Professional ad. This should pay for a few renewals! -DF

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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

now I see

Hi Dan,

That's the model 032, which I just found on their website. We have been using the 031 since it replaced the 030. I wasn't aware of the addition of the 032 to the line.

How about any indoor sensors? Do you regularly use them or not? Most jobs here go without.

Best regards, Pat

Dan Foley

Sensor

We are using one indoor sensor in the core of the building to provide feedback to the 269. -DF

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Unknown

didn't

Those traps you replaced, look like pre-hoffman... Did Hoffman buy out marsh and stamped their name on it... The boilers replacment looks great! I may have a major steam / hot water boiler change over job soon, meeting with the head dept trw, will give you wallies the details if interested...

thfurnitureguy_4

Pressure

The pressure at the boiler should be equal. The reason for the equalizer pipe. Blow back problems would be found at a vent? A place where pressure would be released?
You guys built just what I need. love the weld up header! Just curious, why the big flanges and why not weld all the way to the equalizer drop??

gerry gill

thats one impressive boiler installation..

very, very, very nice install...thats some beautiful workmanship..thanks for shareing the pictures..

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