Pumping away and venting convectors ( Ron Jr. )

clammy

Nice job ron i,ve found on mono flow systems that i would power purge it then start the boiler let the pump run while i started doing the clean up pick up game and usually i would only have to bleed the farest rad or one on the second floor but in ranches i,ve had them where after running a short time there was nothing to bleed .Since i've embraced spriovents and pumping away on all my install i,ve yet to get a call for air related noises or air bound loops .I believe they work better and continue to work longer then a air cam vent it's that element slowing down the velocity and that adhesion therory that makes them work so well i feel they are worth the money i hate re ca;;s for air espically witha well water system .But as usual a excellent looking job level and on the square .What brand of boiler is that i don't reconginze it peace clammy

Unknown

We had a nice little one zone changeout today

1 story house with convectors on a monoflo system ( pic attached ) . We had about 1 hour of work left after filling the system with water and purging the main loop . So we decided to run the circulator with the boiler cold while finishing the job . I've read in books and from others who post here that by pumping away from the PONPC and using good air elimination you might be able to vent the whole system without bleeding any convectors .

Well ...... not a peep of air came out of the B+G Jr. for the whole hour ( Sal went up to hand bleed them all after the hour was up ) . All the while I'm thinking why are we using such an expensive piece of material if we aint getting any air back to the boiler ? I'm wondering if my old way , 1 1/4 inch tee and bell coupling with air can on top would do the job as well ?

I ask the pros - anyone ever leave a job with air in the convectors , to find out it all vented at the boiler eventually ? How long did it take ? Would it work better if the boiler water was hot ? We tried it cold .

Thanks in advance once again .

lchmb

Recently

Actually Ron I had a monoflow system earlier this year that I piped similiar. After filling the main loop and bringing to temp I think it took about 40 minutes to get all the air out of it. They should never have to worry about air issue's again. Nice job (like I've never said that before)...

BTW Clammy, I do believe that's the Burnham RSA boiler

Unknown

I did like you do

I power purged at 25 psi , then let the circ run . Not a hint of an air bubble , nothing . If it was summertime I woulda let it run and see if there was a callback . It's just too cold to be playing around now .

This is literally the easiest job we had in about a month . 2 days ago we swapped out a leaking 4 section 80 series Weil steamer . We're throwing in hanging Weil Mclains like crazy . Definitely going to be a very busy holiday season . Thanks a million Clammy . It's a Burnham RSA steel boiler .

Unknown

I remember one job

where we saw no purge valves at all on the boiler for 2 baseboard zones . Just an air can at the 3/4 tapping on the top . Those baseboard were rippin' hot anyway . I guess it's just a matter of time as long as it's piped like it's supposed to be .

You think having the water at high temp helps out ? Thanks alot Lchmb .

kevin coppinger_4

Ron I have \"borrowed\"....

your idea for some of my budget systems....it works well. I use the grundfos 15-58 so I can play with the pump speed to slow things down for a bit and this helps. The built-in air scoops on the Smith 8 series are very good at removing air... too bad more guys don't take advantage of that "free" part...kpc

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soot_seeker_2

Curse of the monoflo

[Why was my author name shown as Andy?]

Ron, thanks for sharing pictures of another super clean and plumb install. I would actually be surprised if a Monoflo system could be purged within an hour without leaving the boiler room. I would think that it is far too easy for the air to hide in any emmitter above the branch line. Maybe at 200f and 100psi? ;-) Now if you wanted to pipe a ZV in between all the tees and have a switch that closes them all at together so that everything is forced through the emmitter branches you could purge it super quickly. I'm not sure the home-moaner would just the cost of that... ;-)

BTW, if a can on a tee is just an autovent on a small vertical rise, then that is what I used when I switched from a conventional tank to a bladder tank. I was surprised at how well it works. I wish I would have done that 12 years ago when I first bought this place. I haven't had to bleeds rads once in the last 2 years except on the fill. I did buy a Spirovent, but it's still waiting for me to repipe my boiler to make it easier down the road to switchover to a ModCon boiler.

lchmb

I think it does

I have alway's prepurged a boiler, then brought it to temp to finish purge. I honestly wouldn't know if it work's better (having never cold purged a boiler) but it has alway's worked for me. I actually like using a monoflow system, I've found over time they heat better and are more consistant.

Unknown

Very nice to hear

the budget air dumper is working good . We have maybe a few hundred out there piped with a simple air can on the top of the header and they are running just peachy .

We use the built in air tappings on the Peerless and Weil , and hardly ever had an air issue when pumping away . What better place to get rid of air ? Thanks Kevin .

Unknown

I like to purge it all when it's hot

We bring it up to temp first to see if the aquastat is working right and accurate . I'm glad to hear that these systems will eventually rid the air , Lchmb . There were a few summertime jobs where we were too filthy to attempt radiator bleeding .

Mad Dog_2

Ron Ive found that even with a Spirovent....................

You will have to hand purge some air sometimes. I put one on a very complex split loop baseboard system once that we always DIED bleeding. I mean this system split so many times it was ridculous. We got it repiped wit the spirovent. Bled out one zone to get a little heat and returned the next day to finish. The Spirovent had gotten it all out. It used to take us 3 hours! I never got to see the final church job. Can u post one quickei? Mad Dog

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Unknown

Yeah , I hear you about the Spirovent

We are using the B+G EAS JR. , which is a little cheaper but work on the same principle I think . Both the B+G and the Spirovent let out the air ALOT faster than the Taco Vortech though . We used a few last month and they vent reeaaal slooooowww . I wonder how that affects the performance ?

Here's a pic of the finished job . The wiring didn't come out as I woulda liked , but the piping came out fantastic . Thanks alot Matt .