Steam-heat -I can't figure out how to heat!

Scott Reid

I have been in my new century home one year, this being my second heating season, and I can't get my single-pipe steam-heat "to be the most efficient heat" that everyone seems to glorify.
Last season, after having it serviced (cleaned/inspected), the serviceman said everything looked to be in order. But then Winter came, and during the season, my <2000sq/ft (poorly insulated home, I might add) was racking up $500/month gas bills. So, to help try to control costs I went from a mechanical thermostat to a Hunter progammable 5/2. Now, my house maintains a cold 60+ temp., when it is programmed for 70+, and I cannot call for heat with out difficulty.
Then, one night last week, I found a relief valve(guessing)at the end of a unused supply pipe when it started blasting out steam-something it never has done before (and it is <1" under the wood floor it is currently ruining. Also, closed-valve radiators are heating up.
The cycles seem rather quick, and my house cools down just as quickly as it heats up. No reputable servicemen can come until mid-Jan due to current obligations.
What can I do- and where do I start?
Thanks,
Scott Reid

Anna Conda

You'll hear this word a lot: Insulate! Start by insulating your house and sealing up the heat losses. Your house won't lose heat so quickly and won't take as long to heat up, even with the system you got. Get that house packed nice, get your pipes insulated, all heat go to rads not to basement air. Start with your attic/roof, then windows and walls, make a big difference.

Scott Reid

steam-heat advice

Aside from insulation-should I go back to mechanical rather than programmable for single stage-or does it matter? What is the best thermostat for single-stage/single-pipe steam heat? Why is that relief valve blasting away when it has never done that before?
Thanks,
Scott Reid

John S.

relief valve

under the floor? can you take a picture of it? Sounds like a bad air vent blowing steam and that potentially you're running at a pressure way higher than intended. Hence the high fuel bills & lack of heat. Where are you located? Use the Find a Professional link to find a good steam guy near you.

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thfurnitureguy_4

Scott, that relief valve is your main vent. It should not be venting steam!!!! It is in need of replacement. Lets start at the beginning.

Your system is a balance between the size of your boiler and the number of radiators you have. So, if you start to close off radiators you now have an oversized boiler. An over sized boiler will short cycle off and back on from pressure. (Pressure should be like 1 psi). It will do this until the t-stat is satisfyed. It will also use more fuel this way. Likewise if you have removed steam pipe insulation, your pipes have become radiators, and you now have a undersized boiler. An undersized boiler will run forever and slowly heat up. This will also use extra fuel.

What to do: Open all of your radiator valves fully! If a room gets too hot, close the vent a little. You control room heat through the vent not the valve. Replace the Main vent in the basement. This vent is designed to vent air from the big pipes in the basement so you house will heat all the rooms alont the steam pipe at nearly the same time. If the vent is leaking it will rot your floor. I like Gorton Main vents. they are available through a supply house or from Gorton directly. You need to have enough vents to vent your mains in about 1-2 min. after the boiler starts making steam. to do this you need to post the diameter and length of the big pipe from the top of the boiler to where the main vent is ("releaf valve"). This masurement will alow the steam masters to know how much air you have in the pipes. there are charts that tell you how many vents you will need to do this corectly.

ttekushan_2

Lets assume that it worked in the past.

First, I will concur that the best thing to do in this day and age is to insulate as well as the structure practically allows.

But back to steam. That steam blasting device sounds like a broken main vent. Its purpose is to allow air to escape during start-up and close when steam hits it allowing the steam to move up the risers to the radiators. The good news is that you seem to have adequate steam volume being generated by the boiler.

The issue of radiators heating with closed valves is not too hard to explain but is also a wonderful clue as to what is happening at the radiators that don't heat properly. It is possible that those valves are merely leaking steam, but even if they do close properly, there is a small pilot hole drilled in most of those single-pipe angled globe valves that allows water to escape if the valve has been closed during the heating cycle. This is a good route for steam to enter the radiator IF THERE IS ENOUGH PRESSURE-- like TOO MUCH pressure. Guess what else too much pressure does--it will close radiator vents and keep them closed, never allowing new steam into the radiators.

The recipe for this type of situation is 1) an oversized boiler 2) Various radiators closed, forcing fast excess pressure in the ones that are open 3) a pressuretrol that is set waaaaay too high.

Try this: Open all radiator supply valves. Look at the pressure control on boiler. Rotate the screw on top to lower the cut-in as low as it will go. If it is the type with an exposed differential adjustment, set that to about 1 to 1.5 lbs.

You should get good heat now.

If you still have the same trouble, you should really have a professional take a look at the pressuretrol to determine if it is working. If its not, this is a situation that should be corrected IMMEDIATELY.

Now if everything improves dramatically, but there's still a problem radiator or two, check their individual vents for blockage.

Oh yea. Replace that steaming main vent no matter what. Its toast. And ruining your floor.

-Terry

ttekushan_2

T-stat

> First, I will concur that the best thing to do in

> this day and age is to insulate as well as the

> structure practically allows.

>

> But back to

> steam. That steam blasting device sounds like a

> broken main vent. Its purpose is to allow air to

> escape during start-up and close when steam hits

> it allowing the steam to move up the risers to

> the radiators. The good news is that you seem to

> have adequate steam volume being generated by the

> boiler.

>

> The issue of radiators heating with

> closed valves is not too hard to explain but is

> also a wonderful clue as to what is happening at

> the radiators that don't heat properly. It is

> possible that those valves are merely leaking

> steam, but even if they do close properly, there

> is a small pilot hole drilled in most of those

> single-pipe angled globe valves that allows water

> to escape if the valve has been closed during the

> heating cycle. This is a good route for steam to

> enter the radiator IF THERE IS ENOUGH PRESSURE--

> like TOO MUCH pressure. Guess what else too much

> pressure does--it will close radiator vents and

> keep them closed, never allowing new steam into

> the radiators.

>

> The recipe for this type of

> situation is 1) an oversized boiler 2) Various

> radiators closed, forcing fast excess pressure in

> the ones that are open 3) a pressuretrol that is

> set waaaaay too high.

>

> Try this: Open all

> radiator supply valves. Look at the pressure

> control on boiler. Rotate the screw on top to

> lower the cut-in as low as it will go. If it is

> the type with an exposed differential adjustment,

> set that to about 1 to 1.5 lbs.

>

> You should get

> good heat now.

>

> If you still have the same

> trouble, you should really have a professional

> take a look at the pressuretrol to determine if

> it is working. If its not, this is a situation

> that should be corrected IMMEDIATELY.

>

> Now if

> everything improves dramatically, but there's

> still a problem radiator or two, check their

> individual vents for blockage.

>

> Oh yea.

> Replace that steaming main vent no matter what.

> Its toast. And ruining your floor.

>

> -Terry

ttekushan_2

T-stat

Oh I forgot about the thermostat thing. With an electronic make sure you read the instructions and set up the anticipator for STEAM. Like many honeywells, if it doesn't mention steam, set the switches or screws or whatever it has to "gravity" for either gravity hot air or gravity hot water. Similar cycle lengths are used for steam.

This is very important. Improper anticipator setting on the t-stat will cause short cycling, and excessive pressure setting on the pressuretrol (at the boiler) will eventually cause short cycling under pressure. The two occuring simultaneously will make you crazy.

-Terry

John S.

Hey ttekushan...

ever have any luck with Hoffman on those Paul vents? Just curious.

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ttekushan_2

why, yes!

> ever have any luck with Hoffman on those Paul

> vents? Just curious.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 366&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Larry C

The relief valve you are referring to is a main air vent that needs replacement. Open all radiator valves, they should also have vents on the side of rads. Do these vents hiss or whistle a little when steam is up, if not replace all radiator vents. They should hiss untill radiator is hot. Call a local in to take a look. And of course don't forget to insulate

ttekushan_2

why, yes!

And thank you for asking!

The Paul vents are still made and there don't seem to be any plans to discontinue them. Hoffman gave me the name of a semi-local supplier (who I was unfamiliar with) that carries them. Haven't priced them yet.

Why, You ask? 'Cuz I'm really going crazy trying to come up with something vacuum/vapor wise that doesn't turn into a costly Rube Goldberg nightmare to maintain that so mystifies everyone that it gets scrapped by the next person who comes along.

So I have considered going with something Broomellesque except that all the single pipe vents return to a manifold and then into a condensing radiator before venting. A non-return master vent with a separate vacuum breaker is still intriguing since mild temps won't fill the radiators completely and allow the equalization of steam within the system to a large degree.

Which brings me to the conclusion that the thermostatic vents may not be necessary at all. Simply piping the vent lines to the manifold in the basement, and running the system at verrry low pressure. Each vent line could have a small valve where it enters the manifold for the purpose of proportioning. If any steam from a warmer radiator reaches the condensing radiator, the vacuum induced will assist the others that may lag behind.

This set up, while not subatmospheric in an active sense, may be a great set up, because it is so extraordinarily simple, there are no parts that can fail with the exception of the main vent and the vacuum breaker.

I'm otherwise giving myself a little more time to get struck by a Simple Subatmospheric Epiphany. If it doesn't happen soon, I'm likely to try the simplified system mentioned above. I will pipe it so that the Paul vents can be installed without having to rethread or cut any pipe. In case I find the Paul vents to improve the performance of the system.