who makes a good steam boiler

Mike F

who makes a good steam boiler? I have had burnham V8s fail and do not really like weil mclain gaskets between sections. would like to hear other oppinions. thanks!

Mad Dog

V-7s had problems, but I haven't heard of any with the V-8

Glenn Stanton will make it right if you aren't getting anywhere. If you are still sour on Burnhams, Peerless is the next best oil-fired, American Made cast Iron boiler. Mad Dog

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Unknown

I agree with Matt

The V8 is great when used for steam . I've also installed hundreds of Peerless JOTs and their newer twin , the ECT , and they make a fine steam boiler also . What happened to make the V8 steamer leak ?

For product support - hands down it's Burnham .

Josh M.

I think Weil-Mclain is a really great boiler. I have put many together and replaced sections on them. I am a gasket guy through and through. As far as maintenence goes I am sold on Weil-Mclain. However how big of boiler? There are some great fire tube boilers available over 15 horsepower. I personally really like Hurst.

Constantin

...Maintenance is Key...

... as with any appliance. Our downstair neighbors WM kept firing despite a cracked HX... low water shutoff malfunctioned due to dirt in there. 8 hours later (now its morning), the basement was mighty toasty and the WM was broiled.



Poor thing. I try to excercise the shutoff at least once a month just to be certain the boiler shuts off when it's supposed to.

Constantin

...Maintenance is Key...

... as with any appliance. Our downstair neighbors WM kept firing despite a cracked HX... low water shutoff malfunctioned due to dirt in there. 8 hours later (now its morning), the basement was mighty toasty and the WM was broiled.

Poor thing. Once I shut off the electricity to the unit it could finally come to a rest. I also shut off the gas, just to be sure. Subsequently, the boiler had to be replaced as it was completely fried. Luckily, it was at the very beginning of the heating season.

I try to excercise our boilers shutoff at least once a month just to be certain the boiler shuts off when it's supposed to. Are the new solid state sensors more reliable?

Bill Nye

The installer does!!!

Any boiler made today is good, it is the installers skills [or lack there of] that makes a good job or a poor job.

You can take the best boiler in the world, and when put into the hands of the wrong person, make a real mess that will operate poorly and inefficiently for the next 20 years.

It is a shame sometimes but I see it more often than not.

GaryDidier

Steam boilers

Mike, I like the peerless ect for steam. They have a large steam cavity and I have had very good company support.
Gary from Graqnville

Mad Dog

I just can't get past those rubber o-rings......................

It is amazing that they don't all leak, but I see too many out there that have. Went on a bad CO call the other day. 80 ppm in living space. Over 200 ppm in boiler room and rising. Underneath the gas train looked like they were still using coal to heat the boiler (Big chunks of coal). We were going to try to clean her up, but once I pulled the gas train out I saw what had happened. All the burner ribbons had been severely rusted from a constant drip of boiler water thru the sections. That caused a bad burn which over the years, blocked the boiler. It seems that their hot water boilers are not as suseptible, but the steamers and o-rings just don't seem to hold up as long as they should(I think because of the higher heat. She was replaced with a Burnham. Long Island is WEIL-mc Clain territory and it is not always easy to get a Burnham, so sometimes I am stuck. I do love those 3' STEAM tappings though! I think they are a solid company, and always heard that they fully stood by the failed boilers, which alot can be said for. I believe that they should have abandoned the o-rings years ago. Call me a Neanderthal, but to me hot cast Iron, steam, and rubber???????? A recipe for failure. Mad Dog

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Dave Palmer_3

correct

piping makes the different,Weil/Mclain for oil for me. For gas Burnham is first choice & Peerless is close second,sorry Glenn,Dave

Ken_8

There are substantial advantages to

those elastometer rings.

Among them:

1) Relief of thermal stress between sections. Each section is allowed to "float" held to the ajacent section only by rods and locator dimples - not monolithic and stress transfering machined C.I. push nipples.

2) When and if a sectional leak or defect happens, it can be repaired without attempting to "beat" out an intentionally oversized push-nipple, "barrel" or "cone or wedge" being forced into a cast iron hole - that is intentionally too small to accept the taper of the barrel shaped nipple - without literraly shaving the push nipple like a lathe to make it "water tight"? The tension required to assure an iron to iron mating without leaks, undoubtedly compromises the material of the sections ability to expand and contract without undue stress IMHO.

3) Should a boiler dry fire, the stress will crack any C.I. boiler - maybe. In the case of those who use elastometer rings instead of push nipples, the rings will deform and allow steam to enter the fire side and extinguish the flame before the sections are compromised by excessive temperatures. We have at least three documented block saves by virtue of the elastometer venting water/steam into the firebox and preventing a LWCO failure type "meltdown."
The boilers were "saved" from certain destruction because the water shut down the flame.

$20. worth of new elastometer rings installed and the boiler was back on-line within two hours. With a new LWCO - of course.

4) Ever try and replace a bad section in a Smith 28? If even possible, how long did it last before it went bad again? A year? How much time and materials costs did it take to do a 28 replacement?

5) Ever had to replace a bad W/M 78, 80 or 88 section?

'Nuf said.

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Ken_8

Dave,

I agree.

The W/M oil steam boilers have a 2 1/2" riser outlet. Two of them per boiler. The W/M gassteam boiler have two 3" riser outlets.

Fawgettabowt the push vs. elastometer issue if you must, think about the quality of the steam with a 3" riser! We ALWAYS use the full 3" riser - regardless of EDR attached. If we get remotely close to actually needing the full 3", we will double rise using two 3" risers to main connections!

I don't think any other manufacturer has twin 3" risers in a small residential boiler!

AND, THY'RE NOT OFF THE SIDES OF THE STEAM CHEST WHERE SURFACE SPLASH WILL DRIVE THE VIOLENTLY SPLASHING WATER INTO THE HORIZONTAL OUTLET(S)!

W/M puts the riser ports where water carry would be minimalized!

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Unknown

Ken , how does the Weil handle chemicals ?

I know what you mean about sliding a leaking 88 section out - not too easy , but a hell of alot easier than sliding a push nipple section out .

What does the lit say about adding boiler cleaner or certain thread sealants to the Weil ? A good mechanic would take it all into consideration , but I'm thinking of down the road , when a serviceman dumps in 3 times more cleaner than needed , and the wrong type . I'd rather have a boiler in there that is more forgiving of mishaps like this .

Ken_8

As long as there's no

petroleum in chemicals added, you're okay with elastometer rings. Same of course goes for all circulator gaskets, tankless coil gasket, etc. Same for the o-rings in zone valves I assume.

I don't believe I've ever seen a petroleum based additive in my life, but I guess they warn you, using CYA mentality?

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scrook_2

in defense of \"rubber\"

It isn't actually [natural] rubber but EPM or EPDM I believe, an elastomer designed to be highly water/steam and polar solvent resistant (though w/ poor resistance to hydrocarbons) at temperatures up to 300°F (~50 psi saturated steam), hence its use for steam and hot water gaskets in many applications, some CI boilers included. As others have noted they can allow a little more flexibility to the assembled structure and easier dissassembly, but hopefully dissassembly won't ever be required (decommissioning excepted) and drop headers can also offer flexibility.

I suppose push nipples vs. elastomer gaskets will always be a PC vs Mac thing (or Ford vs Chevy maybe? Sorry MoPar fans!)

Mad Dog

I Guess you're a Weil Mc Lain

man huh? I hear ya, but I still inately don't care for the rubber and hot metal. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

yep!

Mets versus yankees Mad Dog

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Boilerpro_3

I'm with Mad Dog

I have seen several 40 year old Weil Mclain E series boilers (steam and hot water)still going strong with push nipples. I regularly replace 15 to 25 year old EG series (hot water and steam) boilers with rings. Both designs seem fine with regular maintenance and nonabusive situations, but when things aren't right, it seems the push nipples designs hold up. I have never seen a leaking Amercian Standard boiler for instance.

I suspect alot has to do with the quality of installer. As I understand it, the rings need to be protected from the byproducts of combustion, so the the sealing ropes need to maintain a perfect seal. As we all know, perfect is not what goes on in the field.

BP

Nick W

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Nick W

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Ken_8

Gee, Mad Dog...

Maybe you should not use rubber gaskets on pump flanges?

Nor as tankless coil gaskets?

Nor on the most important safety device known to steam kind; the rubber washer that is spring loaded onto your pop safety seat - protecting us all from certain death and destruction?

How about the ~15 p.s.i. on your car's radiator cap gasket? Perhaps the rubber ball in Honeywell zone valves should be dismissed? Or perhaps the o-rings in TACO zone valves?

Perehaps the gage glass grommets should be suspect as well?

Nah.

I think rubber has proven itself for the last 100 years. I believe it will be okay for the next 100 as well





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[Deleted User]

As a matter of fact.

I have replaced 78 & 88 sections. Don't do 94's anymore. Cracks are a cast iron boiler fact of life. As for the 28, it, like Weil, uses seals.

ScottMP

Pump gaskets, relief valves and tankles coil gaskets..

Funny Ken we regularly change all three. Thanks for making your point so well .

I know that these are differnt type sof rubber than the gaskets and I knwo that technology has improved. I still like the idea of similar metals expanding at the same rate. I like steel manifold off the boiler. I like cast iron push nipples.

How about boilers leaking during the summer time as the sections cool ? Anybody seen this ?

We will discuss this over some clear beverage Ken.

Scott

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