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permanent flue gas exhaust gauge for residential boiler

ron
ron Member Posts: 343
edited January 3 in Oil Heating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LVebFDg7co

stack temperature is the single point on a boiler that one can go to anytime to see if there's a critical issue with the boiler... and can tell you what the efficiency is..

A residential oil boiler, like a WM WGO-3 or Burnam {whatever} setup, is there a gauge available that can be installed that gives an any and all the time indication of flue gas temperature (stack temperature?) exiting the boiler?

If not how come such a thing doesn't exist? This is where a service tech would insert the probe into the stack just above the boiler to take a temperature measurement while adjusting combustion. But given today's politics and energy crisis, why isn't it more common to see such a simple gauge that could be looked at by home owner to know if a service call is truly warranted? I mean we're not talking rocket science.

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,048
    Why? You don’t walk around with a thermometer in your mouth all day do you?
    But yes there are a number of options available to data log your system.
    For me, it seems like having data for data's sake, and of no real value.
    For example, what are your plans when the net stack waivers a few degrees?
    What are you comparing the data to?
    And on and on.
    Proper combustion test works fine for me.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    DerheatmeisterSuperTech
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,365
    edited January 4
    Not everyone is satisfied with a once a year thermometer reading. That is why mothers across America have thermometers to check if their babies have a fever, @STEVEusaPA

    Do you look at the speedometer, oil pressure, and engine temperature gauge on you car or pickup truck only once a year? Why not have a permanent stack thermometer. There is a permanent temperature and pressure gauge in the boiler water. Are you opposed to having more information available. Americans have a right to know what their heaters are exhausting… and I for one am all for permanent stack thermometers .

    If elected I will enact legislation to mandate stack thermometers on every heater in America. Even electric heaters in California, with no vent pipe will be required to have stack thermometers. This will also give jobs to thermometer manufacturers across America. Service personnel will get better pay for installing these thermometers and the country will be a better place. We will be able to build a wall between those that want thermometers and those that don't care. And someone else will pay for that wall, wherever it is.

    I’m Mr. ED, and I approve this message.


    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    WMno57ron
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 449
    I have one of those fireplace type thermometers similar to the one above.
    It has a 4" approx probe and a magnet holds it to the pipe.
    Easy to glance at stack temp.
    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
    SuperTech
  • Bob Harper
    Bob Harper Member Posts: 969
    Here you go Dave: https://www.amazon.com/Condar-Thermometer-3-39-porcelain-indicated/dp/B000LZDVAU/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1NM3HTI9HCPSV&keywords=flue+gas+thermometer+probe&qid=1672796990&s=home-garden&sprefix=flue+gas+thermometer,garden,122&sr=1-4

    You can also get digital temperature monitors, such as used for BBQ's and woodstoves for less than $50.

    If you put the test holes in the correct places, you can easily test for draft, stack temp, and combustion analysis easily. You can close them with snap-in chrome buttons.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,048

    Not everyone is satisfied with a once a year thermometer reading. That is why mothers across America have thermometers to check if their babies have a fever, @STEVEusaPA

    Fathers too Ed. It’s not the 1950's
    Yes but they don’t leave them in their mouth or other places 24/7.
    I won’t bother commenting on the rest of your post. I know you like to ramble on because you think you’re funny, or witty, or you’re bored.

    Again, constant monitoring, of something that doesn’t need to be monitored, to what end?
    Maybe Nest will make a module so people can constantly look at the app on their phone to check their house temp and stack temp. Or a high temp Apple Watch with a strap so it can be strapped onto the flue pipe.


    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    HVACNUTSuperTech
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,949
    Mod cons have flue sensors, but they're for the boiler to gauge flue temperature to fan speed to gas input, not for the end user to monitor. 

    If your boiler is properly maintained then there must be other things in life to focus attention on. Although if it was a choice I had to make between that, watching the grass grow, or taking up golf, I'd get me a beach chair, a cooler, and plop in front of my boiler. 
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 721
    edited January 4
    WOW, I wish they had these boiler schools in the early 1970's so many of us would not have been "self taught". Some of the package boilers came with a stack thermometer which I considered a waste of money. Instead of an economizer, how about a set of turbulators? Speaking of the need for constant monitoring and energy savings, reminds me of the first O2 trim systems. They were just great. You knew there was a problem with the O2 trim system when parts and sometimes the burner left the boiler and sometimes even the boiler room. A good service contract by a reputable service company and well trained service person using the best brand name parts was the best assurance of a well tuned and safe boiler. My 2 cents.
  • ron
    ron Member Posts: 343
    edited January 4

    Why? You don’t walk around with a thermometer in your mouth all day do you?
    But yes there are a number of options available to data log your system.
    For me, it seems like having data for data's sake, and of no real value.
    For example, what are your plans when the net stack waivers a few degrees?
    What are you comparing the data to?
    And on and on.
    Proper combustion test works fine for me.

    a thermometer in my mouth, no I don't have to I wear a mask.

    I don't want to log data. And I don't want to do a combustion test, nor do I have that capability (financially) nor do I want to. stack temperature is the single point on a boiler that one can go to... I just want to see a number whenever I happen to walk by or want to check, same as looking at my boiler temp/pressure gauge or the digital readout on my hydrostat.

    For example, what are your plans when the net stack waivers a few degrees?

    Call emergency boiler service, and ask for further tests, fly off the handle and then follow the science.

    Kidding aside, like i said not rocket science here... I mean a $10 oven thermometer from walmart that does 500°F would suffice I don't need a fluke with remote type K thermocouple probe with pistol grip handle... just one simple gauge...

    analogous to oil pressure gauge or coolant temp gauge on your car... now they are idiot lights but back in the day you didn't need to be a certified SAE mechanic to read such a gauge and having an ounce of intelligence such a gauge could prevent problems... same with my oil boiler I would think it would be win win it would more likely result in service calls overall that is money made by service techs but which would not be middle of the night holiday calls for help. That breach pipe, exhaust pipe off top of the boiler (help my vocabulary), they should sell the initial piece maybe up to the draft regulator, that has a simple stack temperature gauge in it.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 14,112

    Why? You don’t walk around with a thermometer in your mouth all day do you?
    But yes there are a number of options available to data log your system.
    For me, it seems like having data for data's sake, and of no real value.
    For example, what are your plans when the net stack waivers a few degrees?
    What are you comparing the data to?
    And on and on.
    Proper combustion test works fine for me.


    It's not like any car or truck has ever had gauges so you could make sure everything was behaving acceptably eh?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 14,112
    edited January 4
    And I see @ron just made that comparison already.

    @ron I use something called Ultragauge that reports specific "gauges" from the ECM to tell me what's going on. Most of the time, it shows me voltage, coolant temperature, ignition timing in degrees, both the short term and long term fuel trims and what pressure the high pressure fuel pump is delivering.

    It's saved my butt a few times and it's mounted in the car all the time because I guess I like walking around with a thermometer hanging out of my mouth. :D
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,835
    Seems to me there's no harm, fundamentally, to having various gauges -- whether it's your boiler, your car or truck, your airplane, or whatever. The problem comes when you have the gauge, and the individual reading the gauge either doesn't understand what the gauge is supposed to read, and the ranges it can move over normally, or has a minor panic attack when it's out of range. Then it is either just bling, in the former case, or causes unwarranted concern, in the latter case.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 14,112
    edited January 4

    Seems to me there's no harm, fundamentally, to having various gauges -- whether it's your boiler, your car or truck, your airplane, or whatever. The problem comes when you have the gauge, and the individual reading the gauge either doesn't understand what the gauge is supposed to read, and the ranges it can move over normally, or has a minor panic attack when it's out of range. Then it is either just bling, in the former case, or causes unwarranted concern, in the latter case.

    And then there's times when one gauge says the boiler water level is high, and then another one across the room say's it's low...........and if it's too high or too low you're in deep doo doo....And you can't figure out which one's right, if either....
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ron
    ron Member Posts: 343
    stack temperature is the single point on a boiler that one can go to anytime to see if there's a critical issue with the boiler... and can tell you what the efficiency is..

    I just want one analog temp gauge to show stack temperature, not unlike the tridcator (temp/pressure gauge) on the face of the boiler.

    i'm guessing at this point there is no "breech pipe" ? that is currently made and for sale that has a 1/4" npt bung in it that you can just thread a simple 0 - 500°F analog temp gauge into ?

    I'm starting a new business, make stack temperature great again.