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Cemetery chapel improvements

I have been charged with choosing a new heating and cooling system for the chapel of our non-profit cemetery, and raising funds for it. Pictures of the chapel can be found on the cemetery website at:

This is a beautiful 1913 building full of stone, and mosaic tile work, in a league with such others as Cleveland's Wade chapel (designed by Louis Tiffany in Lakeview cemetery.)

The original Dunham vapor system has been decommissioned several decades ago, and some hidden ducts , and hidden registers put in under side benches. This furnace installation qualifies for the wall of shame, as the ductwork only provides 75% of the needed airflow!

I would like a condensing boiler, placed in the basement, which will feed 2 zones (basement & main floor), which will feed some cabinet style fan-coils, which can be adapted to cold water from a chiller on the outside, installed in phase 2.

The heat-loss of the building is: 269 KBTU at 0 deg X 70 Deg.(in use) once a month or so.

When not in use, the heat-loss could be as low as 115 KBTU at 30 deg X 60 deg.

I am concerned with apparent complexity of some of the controls on such boilers as the Lochinvar WH. How easy will it be for someone to go into the chapel, and change the temperature from low to high? Do these have proprietary thermostats?

Unfortunately, there is no internet, now; but that would be in my plans.

I wonder if I would be better off choosing 2 simpler boilers, such as the Lochinvar Solution, each one rated at about a half of the maximum load, and capable of taking over in the event of a malfunction. They also have ODR, and might be easier to maintain, and more forgiving (like Darth Vader), if they were slightly neglected.

If we didn't have such a necessity for air conditioning, I would put the steam back in operation, as all the radiators are there. The chapel can hold 90 people, so how much cooling capacity should I plan for?--NBC


  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 6,540
    This publicity should help

    The steam rejuvenation is still on hold, but hopefully will get to a couple of ounces this winter.

    My son was married there this weekend-NBC
  • hot rodhot rod Member Posts: 7,059
    fun project

    are you going to be doing the work?

    Maybe give the team over at Stack Plumbing and Heating a call for design or install help. They do a lot of those church conversions in the Cleveland area. Andy or Brian Stack.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • why not fix the steam

    and put in some ductless splits.  For 90 people you shouldn't need more than 5 or 6 tons, if you precool the space before service and the building is only heavily occupied for about an hour at a time.
    The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

    Chicago's Steam Heating Expert

    Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 6,540
    Old chapel

    The existing system is a Dunham vapor, with a leaking, mis-piped Bryant (Dunkirk?) boiler. I may even do a little vacuumizing with it.

    Interesting that you mention Cleveland, because there is the beautiful Wade chapel there. Someone from Cleveland was telling me how beautiful it was, and then when he saw our chapel; said ours is more beautiful!

    As this is a part time project, we have been first stopping all the leaks into the basement and crypt, and completing other deferred maintenance, before replacing the boiler.

    A City-Multi Mitsubishi could handle the cooling.

    Like any historic project, you make a list at the beginning, and as you cross off some jobs at the top, you discover more jobs popping up on the bottom!--NBC
  • Dave in QCADave in QCA Member Posts: 1,660
    Beautiful! I remember you posting this project in Strictly Steam. I had not seen pictures of the chapel until now. Simply beautiful.

    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
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