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High efficincy steam heating boiler

Good evening.  I have a customer who is interested in a rebatable (84% or higher) gas fired steam boiler - 200,000 btu.  Any recommendations?   Thank You

Comments

  • JohnNYJohnNY Member Posts: 1,823
    For private consulting services, find John "JohnNY" Cataneo here at :
    "72°F, LLC"
    Or email John at [email protected]
    Or at Gateway Plumbing & Heating
    John travels regularly to out-of-state clients for consulting work.
  • BobCBobC Member Posts: 4,451
    Plenty of choices

    To get into the mid 80's you need a power gas burner on a wet based boiler. Many have used the Carlin EZ-Gas with good results. The installer has to buy the boiler without a burner and order a gas gun set up for that particular boiler.



    It's most commonly done with the Smith G8 series but has been done with most wet based boilers. Make sure the installer is familiar with a setup like this so he does everything right, where are you located? If you look around you will find a lot of posts by people who have done this.



    You could convert to hot water but there is a chance you will find leaks or that your existing radiators can not provide enough heat with the reduced heat output of hot water systems. If you do convert be prepared for unintended consequences.



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • pipekingpipeking Member Posts: 252
    edited February 2013
    i would have to say

    u get the most out of your flame with a wet base boiler. i don't get why boiler companys don't have package boilers in this configuation, if they had made it common place im sure it would bring the burner price down.
  • JStarJStar Member Posts: 2,668
    Steam

    We install the Smith/Carlin combo and run as high as 87% efficiency. That's as good as it gets with steam right now.
    - Joe Starosielec
    [email protected]
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 6,701
    All is not lost

    if you are on oil -- I have a Weil McClain boiler with a Carlin oil burner.  When set up by Charles (who really does know what he's doing) it reads around 84 to 85 percent efficiency.
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-McClain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • JohnNYJohnNY Member Posts: 1,823
    Measuring efficiency on your own...

    ...is not the same as factory-published ratings. Has anyone successfully gotten a qualification for a gov't rebate based on their own efficiency measurements?
    For private consulting services, find John "JohnNY" Cataneo here at :
    "72°F, LLC"
    Or email John at [email protected]
    Or at Gateway Plumbing & Heating
    John travels regularly to out-of-state clients for consulting work.
  • HeatJockeyHeatJockey Member Posts: 37
    Thank you all for your advice

    Yes, the customer is interested in a boiler that qualifies for a rebate
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 11,380
    These rebate programs

    from what I've seen, only cover certain models or types of boilers. Since their target boilers don't work in all systems, the programs let politicians look like they're actually doing something when they're not. It's an old game.



    But a rebate program should not be the only reason for a boiler upgrade. Fuel prices will only continue to rise, so putting in a more-efficient boiler now will mean big savings as the years roll on. Same with insulation, proper venting and other things.



    I've heard several different explanations as to why manufacturers don't publicize wet-base/power burner gas-fired steamers. The one that makes the most sense is that gas and oil suppliers don't want them. These people want to sell as much fuel as they can get away with, so they have zero incentive to install efficient boilers. As a result, gas utilities buy and install lots and lots of atmospheric boilers that barely meet minimum efficiency standards, just like oil companies install pin-type boilers that are difficult to clean properly (OK, a properly tuned oil burner doesn't make smoke or soot, but that's a whole 'nother issue). And oil companies don't want to publicize the fact that oil boilers can be converted to gas so easily.



    I'm sure there are some exceptions, but this seems to be the general rule.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 6,701
    There is a difference

    between politically correct and functional.  We're seeing it here.  Grrr...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-McClain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Member Posts: 3,922
    edited February 2013
    weil mclain

    EG55 series is 83.9% in spark ignition atmospheric vented natural gas.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • BanBan Member Posts: 79
    edited February 2013
    Yes, grrr

    There simply has to be another reason why wet-based boilers are not being installed everywhere. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
    Richard Ban





    Detroit, Michigan (Dunham 2-pipe vacuum)
  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Member Posts: 3,922
    I know why

    they are not being installed.

    1-They weigh more.

    2- They require a combustion analyzer to tune them to fire properly.

    3- They are not as quiet as atmospheric vented boilers. Especially when not tuned properly.

    4- They cost a bit more.

    5- The conversion burners were installed so poorly over the years in regards to efficiency that they are black listed in many peoples minds.

    6- The rumor is the larger passages of an oil boiler do not allow proper firing when done with gas.

    1 to 4 are true, 5 is due to number 2 not being adhered to, and 6 is a cover up for not following # 2.

    The Trio water boiler F.W.Webb sells adds a section for the same output when firing on a power gas burner as opposed to an oil burner. This keeps the Efficiency numbers equal input BTU for input BTU. Commercial Boilers drop efficiency ratings when firing on gas as they force the same BTU for gas or oil into the same block.  
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • SWEISWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    BTU for BTU

    is there a derating factor that I can use on an oil rating to give me an optimal gas capacity?



    thanks~
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