CO problem here?

D107

Though I have a PRO coming to look at this fairly soon, I thought I'd get some comments on this 15? yr old oil-fired system:

Aquarius Hydrotherm Boiler Model 0A 154;
1.10 GPH Max; Gross Output 116,800 btu/hr;
Net Rating 101,700 Btu/hr;
ASME working pressure 100 psi;
Minimum Relief Valve 116.8 lbs pressure;
Beckett Burner BWB;
General Filter 1A-25A;
2 zones; one for house, other for back porch.

I'm sure the oil supplier maintenance deal is not covering a thorough combustion tuneup/cleaning, which from other threads I've learned takes about two hours annually. Concerned since my 82 yr old mother lives alone there. She had said there was no soot until I pointed it out to her; then she says yes she has to clean the cellar once a month to remove the soot film. Has a Co detector in bedroom in top floor of split level.

Note that I was told that maint. co? has been filling holes on the flange around that black manifold entering boiler from burner--near where the soot is--to lessen the smell of oil. Not sure covering those holes is normal--meant to view the flame?

Thanks,

David

Weezbo

You need to have the thing cleaned.

and the stack. and make sure you have some means for outside make up air to get to the burn, while you are about having it tuned up.figure it is going to take hours to do that properly.

D107

Thanks Weezbo; as far as fresh air intake

I guess when the pro inspects it and determines there's no real problem other than cleaning/calibrating then a can in a fan or other intake device could be installed. I know some pros have told me in a loosely insulated house an FAI may not be necessary. This is a 1956 split level; there is wall and some basement silt plate insulation, but it's not sealed. I stood by the basement door just a crack open when burner was running held up a tissue and did not feel or see suction so perhaps that's not an issue but we'll get a good tech in there soon.

I'm just amazed a service co. could let that soot condition go on. Relates to alot of other recent threads here, including Mark Hunt's.

David

Mark Hunt

Well


soot is a by-product of incomplete combustion and so is CO. Now I can't say that your mom is getting dosed continuously but she has to be getting hit with something. The soot proves it.

That boiler needs to have a real pro look at it and it needs to be tested for MORE than CO2. Only a digital analyser can do this. Call the service company and ask if they offer that (bet they say no). If they do not, find one that does.

You need to get your mom a low level CO alarm. The junk that is sold in the stores offer no protection to her. It says so right on the box.

Check out this Link and see if there is a certified contractor near you. They will be able to set the burner up correctly and get you the low level monitor. If not, e-mail me again and I can at least set you up with the CO alarm.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

D107

Thanks for the tip Mark and I'll also

check out http://www.aeromedix.com which I've seen on another thread for higher quality detectors. I suppose someone should go after those chain stores that sell the cheaper ones. I bought one just last week for myself which I now have to bring back. Some of them even claim to detect natural or propane gas AND smoke, all in one.

David

ecrist1

hate to be that guy but...

How much do you really intend to spend on it? Ask the tech for a quote to replace. It *might* be in your better interests to replace the thing. By the time you do everything you *should* to fix the old one you could probably get a new system comparably. Worth keeping in mind. Check out sealed combustion and high efficiency equipment as well you have more options than you may think.

D107

Yes replace with mod-con gas boiler an option;

This is in Long Island and perhaps the utility would partially subsidize the switch from oil to gas.(no gas lines at house now.) Personally I've always had gas-fired. Sure my mother would love to get rid of the basement oil tank. However at least some kind of combustion adjustment should be made in the meantime for safety. I'd guess that National Comfort Institute guys do more combustion testing than installing boilers. Anyway I know a good PRO installer nearby.

Thanks,

David

Weezbo

Combustion derives a group of efficiency from Oxygen.

controlled ventilation is some quantifiable experience

and one other good thing about a dedicated supply air opening, you can go to one place and close it or open it

buh thats ok, because, i cannot tell how much nitrogen is in the burn by standing here at the key board looking at the front inspection plate either. Sometimes , not always, buh sometimes things change the min you turn your back, the trolls come down out of the rafters and chop cracks in the chimney which allows the burner to draw the spent combustion products right back into the room through the very opening you are trusting ventilates the bad boys out of the building, when that happens the amount of energy being released during combustion diminishes...sometimes remarkably so, I Hate Trolls.You cant see them and they are fast as greased lightning, they snatch tools and hide them in a blink...once they start fritzing with the combustion process, i really, really ,dont like em.

Mike E_2

Depending on which detector you bought at one of the big box stores, you may have a good one. The Kiddie CO detectors with the digital display are able to go as low as 11ppm. They only continuously display above 30ppm, but 11-29ppm are stored in the peak level memory which is accessed by pushing a button on the front of the unit.

Both the Wal-mart and Home Depot on my area carry the Model KN-COPP-B detector for around $45.

D107

service co only uses Bacharach instruments to test

which is not 'digital analyser'as far as I know. In May they got the following readings: CO2: 10; Stack Temp: 500; Smoke: 0; Draft: 04. Efficiency: 78.75% out of possible 83.5%. Seems no test was done for CO. Attached is a long list of maintenance procedures we used for the big steam boiler and forced draft burner in the city; perhaps someone could advise on what combustion test should include for home oil burner/boiler. Plus I know chimney and oil tank will have to be cleaned.

Service Co. is coming today to clean and test but I would still be looking to get a pro in there at some point especially if the soot condition continues. The contractor list of the National Comfort Institute seems to be a bit out of date; a company called 'Petro' was recommended. My mother said the service co on at least one occasion spent alot of time taking the burner apart etc. but still someone has to analyze why there would be a soot problem if cleaning doesn't take care of it or if make-up air is needed.

Thanks,

David

Mitch_6

Testing

Most oil companies and Petro is one of the biggest in my area only carry the single chemical analyzers for co2 in there truck. These units are a fraction of the price to purchase and maintain than a digital analizer.

I install oil and service / install gas so I have a digital analizer that will do almost any common fuel.

I just did an oil installation this week and used my digital analizer for the combustion test required by the fire department. Stack temps, efficiency, co2, co and o2 are also done at the same time since the analyzer does everything for me.

Some of the other companies I work with are also "SLOWLY" getting into digital equipment although of them fewer are properly trained to use it.

The best thing to do is call around for a company that has a digital analizer and also make sure that the person using it has been trained by Bachrach, NCI, Gas Appliance Service or similar organization and is testing by there protocols.

Mitch

jerry scharf_3

no guarantee they work

the sad thing is that there is no way to verify they work. That maay sound like a strange comment, but it coes from the fact that a 2001 study buying off the shelf CO detectors found almost 40% of the units failed to alarm as specified. There have been CO death cases where there was a silent CO detector in the room when the Fire Dpt came in and the person was dead. The "test" button doesn't test the sensor... Duh!

Stick with the CO Experts unit.

jerry