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changing a garber filter

oillessoilless Posts: 1Member
so I ran out of oil tried to bleed the system but there is to much air I bought I filter to change problem is I shut off the oil at the shut off valve and when I went to un screw the oil filter there was a ton oil coming out so I had to tighten it back up there is a screw to the side of the filter is that the shut off?
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Comments

  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Posts: 684Member ✭✭
    Nope

    The screw is to bleed the filter. It appears your shut off is bad. Why did you want to change the filter?

    Either you didn't bleed it properly, or you had a restriction which to you looked like air, or you have a leak and it's sucking in air. Or a combination of the 3.

    A trained tech and some gauges can solve this simply & quickly
    steve
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  • billtwocasebilltwocase Posts: 2,025Member ✭✭✭
    instal a vacuum gauge

    where that 1/4" plug is. When the vacuum reaches about 5, replace it. Another word of advice, if those plugs are overtightened, they do make hairline cracks in the housing
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  • billtwocasebilltwocase Posts: 2,025Member ✭✭✭
    another thing

    looks like your shut off is an old leaking Fireomatic valve. If there is another valve before it, us it, if not, after you rotate the wheel to where it is almost off, gently tap down on the stem with the wheel still on it, of have a tech do it and replace the valve while they are at it
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  • drhvacdrhvac Posts: 179Member
    replacing valve

    How would you fix or replace a bad valve if there is nothing before it to stop the oil?
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  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Posts: 684Member ✭✭
    2 ways

    1. Wait until the tank is empty.

    2. Soot vac trick. Wouldn't recommend trying this on your own the first couple of times.

    I even hesitate to mention it because you should only try it with someone who has done it before.

    The only other way if you get lucky would be a clogged oil line.
    steve
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  • RreyRrey Posts: 13Member
    Soot Vac Trick...FTW

    Learned the soot vac trick over 25 yrs ago from a guy who understood physics...has saved my but a few times and saved a tech who called me a few years back for help. Found him lying on the floor with his finger in the hole where the bottom tank valve had snapped off...with a full tank of oil.

    Plugged the vent, started the vac and was able to back out the broken stub and replace the valve....without any oil leakage.

    Beware of a full tank..could end up with a vac full of oil....
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  • drhvacdrhvac Posts: 179Member
    soot vac

    Could you explain a little more in detail how the soot vac works?
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 6,871Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Half full or less oil tanks:

    Be extremely careful if you try that trick on a tank that is close to empty. If it is a good strong vacuum, and you pull too much vacuum on a almost empty tank, you can collapse the tank from atmospheric pressure.

    That's why they have those big straps around the tanks of those Honey Wagon suck trucks.



    I know a well driller who needed a new water truck for developing his wells. He bought a 2000 gallon underground oil tank to cart water for his drilling and developing. At night, he would drain the water out of the tank. He had a big 1 1/2" ball valve on the top of the tank that he would open to let air in while it was draining. One night, he drained the tank and forgot to open the valve. The tank collapsed.
    Post edited by icesailor on
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  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 2,848Member ✭✭✭
    Vac gauge

    It won't solve the problem at hand but I saw someone mentioned installing a vacuum gauge.  I did this about a month or so before switching to NG.

    While I'm sure there are other options this vac guage came from Garber
    JPG
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    Weil-McLain EG-40 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment Typical operating pressure 0.5 - 1.0 inch wc.

    Steam system pictures updated 1/25/15.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#

    Don't push the envelope, eliminate it.
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 6,871Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Gauges:

    There's a 1/8" NPT hole in the top of that filter that comes with a 1/8" NPT plug in it. They sell that 1/8" NPT "Restriction gauge" that replaces the plug. If you put a gauge in and have a second filter closer to the source. that gauge will tell you if you have any restriction in the line. You unscrew it to vent the filter. When you first install the gauge and the filter and you get it running, mark the face with a marker as to what the vacuum is with a new filter. The next time someone comes and they see that the needle has moved up, it shows restriction. Date the filters. So someone knows when it was last changed. If you always date your filters, and you get a call and see that there is a filter with no name and the burner isn't running, what did someone else do to it.

    If the filter or line is seriously restricted, you can hear the sound of flame go down as the needle rises into the yellow and go off when in the red.

    High vacuum can cause outgassing of the fuel and create gas bubbles that can drive you nuts. Use two spin on filters and keep pump strainer and nozzle strainers clean.

    For those few who like to see what is inside one of those useless Fulflo or General filters, General now owns Garber. They must have known a good filter when they saw one.

    Look inside the single clogged filter and you can the clean bottom where the filtered oil goes to the nest filter or pump.
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    Post edited by icesailor on
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  • David107David107 Posts: 1,081Member ✭✭
    when vac reaches 5

    Our vac gauge doesn't have the color warning scheme, just numbers. We have found that as the tank oil level goes down the vac reading goes up, with nothing to do with the filter. (We have a 50 micron at the tank and 100 micron spinon at burner. at every tuneup filters are always clean.) When tank is full vac is almost always 0, and goes up to 4 at about quarter tank. I have heard this is due to 'lift' or distance from burner (only maybe eight feet.) we have a top feeding Roth tank. So did you mean replace the filter if it reads 5 with a full tank of oil?
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  • billtwocasebilltwocase Posts: 2,025Member ✭✭✭
    something tells me

    That you have a 2 pipe system. That is the only reason for the high vacuum readings, or you have a supply problem. Your oil level shouldn't be effecting your readings to that extreme. 
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 6,871Member ✭✭✭✭
    Garber Filters:

    Why do you have a 50 Micron at the tank and 100 Micron "Spin-On" at the burner? What kind of a element is the "100 Micron" filter and where did you get it? Or did you mean it is a "10 Micron" filter.

    Garber Model "R" spin on's are 10 Microns.

    If you have a Roth tank on the same floor as the burner, once the syphon is established, there is no suction lift. Roth tanks had a rubber pick-up hose. The hose is notorious for collapsing and also for collecting sludge on the outside and inside. They also have a device for shutting off flow at the top of the tank that can suck air. Every Roth tank that I installed or had to be serviced because of a problems, I installed a Tigerloop, to end the problem.

    If the vacuum is going up as the tank goes down and the tank and burner are on the same floor, you have other minor issues.
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  • David107David107 Posts: 1,081Member ✭✭
    Sporadic vac reads

    don't want to hijack this thread so i'll start a new one in oil heat later on this evening. Thanks.
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  • petr015petr015 Posts: 1Member
    Just making sure that you know that the shut-off turns to the left to shut it off. So when valve is shut, the knob should spin right off the top.
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  • Patchogue PhilPatchogue Phil Posts: 185Member ✭✭
    edited March 1
    Ice sailor:
    "
    If the vacuum is going up as the tank goes down and the tank and burner are on the same floor, you have other minor issues."


    I observe this behavior with my standard 275 top feed single line tank. New filter, when full tank gauge reads 2 1/2 while running. When I get down to about 1/8 tank the gauge reads alost 4.

    What are the possible minor issues you mention?

    Thanks.
    Post edited by Patchogue Phil on
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 6,871Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ice sailor:

    "

    If the vacuum is going up as the tank goes down and the tank and burner are on the same floor, you have other minor issues."





    I observe this behavior with my standard 275 top feed single line tank. New filter, when full tank gauge reads 2 1/2 while running. When I get down to about 1/8 tank the gauge reads alost 4.



    What are the possible minor issues you mention?



    Thanks.

    This string is over a year old.

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  • Patchogue PhilPatchogue Phil Posts: 185Member ✭✭
    Yes, it started almost a year ago.

    Not cracking wise , nor any disrespect ...Does that mean it cannot be discussed any more?
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 6,871Member ✭✭✭✭
    No. Sorry Phil.

    Once the syphon is established, if the tank and burner are on the same floor, and you pipe I=overhead to replace a unprotected underground oil line, the pressure should not be affected by the need for suction lifting. It should be on gravity. The question I ask is does the vacuum pressure stay the same when the pump stops or does it drop to zero. Those Garber Filters have the gauge on the inlet, so they show the restriction THROUGH the filter. I think that once the syphon is established, the head pressure on the pump/filter is determined by the fuel level in the tank.

    Something that any miscreant discovers when borrowing fuel for their car and using a syphon hose and a gas can. The lower the receiving can is from the fuel source, the faster the gasoline fills the capture tank. And the bigger the ID of the hose, the faster the flow.

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  • Patchogue PhilPatchogue Phil Posts: 185Member ✭✭
    On my gauge the reading does not change from burner running or stopping. My tank bottom is about even height with burner & Garber filter. Tank has short legs and burner on 6 inch high slab.

    Thanks.
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