Victaulic vs Threaded Steel Pipe & Fittings

S Ebels

The code books don't state that there is only one particular joining system approved. There may be certain type systems that are approved for a given fluid or pressure rating and maybe that's what the engineer is hung up on.

Vic is so much faster than threaded that it's not even funny. Large bore threaded pipe is so difficult to handle when you start dealing with full lengths that your labor will be double what it is for Vic.

If it's a hot water system and the job is good sized, now might be the perfect time to invest in a ProPress setup and price them a copper install. Viega is currently bringing in and getting approvals for their large bore fittings that are copper instead of brass. Going to be a fair amount less expensive.

As an example, 2 of my guys hung 320' of 2 1/2" steel using Vic fittings in less than 7 hours. That included strut and hangers 22' off the floor.

William A. Pierce

Victaulic vs. Threaded steel pipe and fittings

I currently submitted for approval victaulic pipe, valves, and fittings for heating hot water and chilled water piping 2-1/2" and above (which was listed in specs under products for piping systems).

The engineer rejected my submittals because the specs call for in the "Execution section" that the HVAC piping systems are to be installed using "COPPER OR THREADED STEEL PIPE AND FITTINGS" for all sizes.

When I tried to explain to the engineer and the owner that this was not an industry standard they did not want to hear it.

Is there any information that can be provided to me that shows that Victaulic PVFs is an HVAC industry standard for piping systems 2-1/2" & above and that threaded steel pipe and fittings for 2-1/2" and above is NOT an industry standard?

Mijola

Check the 2004 ASHRAE Handbook, Chapter 41, page 41.6, table 5, which lists different materials and joint types for HVAC piping. There is no mention of threaded piping for recirculating water 2.5 to 12 inch in diameter, but it does list grooved piping for this size range.

Mitch_4

for speed

there is no comparison . Vic'd fittings are a real time saver. We use them all the time for sprikler pipe larger than 1.5"..a crew of 3 did about 5 MILES of pipe in a new warehouse in a week,and it'll hold the high pressures (we test to well over 100 psi on some systems.

Try Victaulic's website..they have a MOUNTAIN of info, and case studys too.

http://www.victaulic.com/

Mitch

Adam_12

Industry standard for 2.5 and larger is generally welded pipe .One of my jobs we are using Victalic on the chilled and heating mains .Iam sure Victalic would be more than happy to give you the required information.Threading on any thing larger than 2 inch is just asking for trouble. This is where you have to educate the engineer and the owner in the current installation methods .They must be generic specifications and they probably dont know enough to think any differant.If they donot go for Victalic purpose welded at the appropriate markup,dig your heels in they donot know what there talking about.

S Ebels

Another engineer

Looking at a 50 year old manual. I think Dan wrote an article about that a while ago.

I agree, it's time to drag these two out of the stone age, kicking and screaming if you have to.

mark smith

why waste your time ...

here's what I bid ...

heres's what you get ...

if the "Engineer" never heard of Vic ...

where ya goin' ...??

Ed_26

piping specs.

Right on Mark! Sometimes when the 'engineer' doesn't know his stuff, it's better to walk. (actually---RUN!)

Arthur

Victaulic fittings

I don't know of any consultaning engineer here in NZ who would allow us to use victaulic fittings on heating system pipe work,
Question I would have is how does the rubber in the victaulic stand up to the hot water over a long period of time?

bovide_6

Doesn't the materials section in the specs supercede the execution section if an item is specifically listed? Do not go threaded, especially if this is a non public job and you have some flexibility. Offer an extended warranty if you have to in order to get Vic approved. Don't even settle for sweating copper(large dia.)-go vic or propress on the copper.

Tony Conner_2

Grooved Pipe...

... can work very well, as long as a couple of things are kept in mind. Manufacturers have gaskets for different services - get the right ones for your particular application. On heating systems, there is expansion to consider. Designers and installers need to either have enough joints on long straight runs (there's a little gap between the pipe ends at the couplings) or have a proper expansion joint to deal with it. Most of the grooved pipe joint problems I've seen involved joints being cocked due to expansion, or just flat out poor workmanship - grooves not rolled the correct depth, crappy fit up, etc. - or failure to allow for expansion.

operationsengineer

temperature cycling and leaking vics

I agree the installation is far less expensive using vics for piping systems. However the costs associated with fixing leaks that occur off season in heating systems soon dwarfs any installation savings. Any thoughts on how to preclude the leaks and stopping the pain will be appreciated.

The Chief

gennady

vic

I did recently job with Vic. and it was OK for ratings well with in the range, just pipe schedule must be in line with codes. I had seen sprinkler contractor doing hot water system with SC10 black steel pipe.

Henry

Vic

We regularly use Victaulic during our boiler room upgrades. It is standard practice her for anything over 2 1/2 inches. We only weld, if the specs specify this. We have not had ANY leaks using Victaulic fittings on hot water or chilled water applications.

If you look closely at the two pictures you will see some victaulic in this install.

LBSr

Steam for Rolled Groove?

Anybody have info and feedback on using rolled groove fittings on Schedule 40 pipe for a 4" riser??