history of plumbing

ed wallace

Tonite at 10 pm on history channel the history of modern indoor plumbing should be a good show

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ScottMP

Maybe they'll

Show this stuff ......



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jackchips_2

I ask

this question quite awhile ago without a response and this thread seems a good place for a repeat.

Has anyone come across a floor mounted toilet without floor bolts? Many years ago I replace two in our local Library that did not have any bolts. After pondering the situation for quite a while I just went ahead and smashed one to pieces.


Turns out they were screwed into a female flange. I was able to salvage one and, although I don't know for sure, hopefully my late Father-in-law turned it over to the Plumbing Museum in Worcester, Ma.

The toilets were on a low pressure water system with a cistern in the attic and flushed with a flush valve.

The library was built in the early 20th Century and it appeared the bathrooms were original.

Anyone else come across similar ones?

As far as the show tonight, it will be interesting if the Manoog Museum in Worcester is mentioned as it might be the premier location in the world for plumbing artifacts.

Thanks for the heads up Ed.

ed wallace

history of plumbing

ok im interested where is the mangoog museum in worchester i have never heard of it

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jackchips_2

The Charles Manoog

Plumbing and Heating Supply company, a one store family operation, opened a Museum quite a few years ago. The company was recently sold to Supply of New England but I believe the Manoog family retained the Museum.

As with many who are to close to a good thing, I have never been inside but it has been written up in many publications as a world class Plumbing Museum. The Supply house is located on Piedmont street in Worcester (1-800-244-4224) but I'm not sure where the Museum is located. It should pop up on Google.

Jack

ScottMP

Ah brother in Arms

Jack, we got to get together sometime. Yes we have come across those WC before. It screws down on the floor.

I'll see if I can stay up long enough to watch the 10:00 PM show.

Jack, are you going to Siggys class on Friday.

Scott

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Robert O'Connor_7

Haven't seen that.....

Never heard of a screw down bowl before. But have you ever seen a lav with the toilet tank inside it??..Robert O'Connor/NJ

Larry Weingarten

Here is a nice..

page on the Manoog museum. They even have water heaters!http://www.wbur.org/special/strangemuseums/plumbing.asp

Weezbo

Robert )

I think some of the frontier guys stayed around your neighbourhood:) They like to hook up all manner of weird stuff )one day i took a little toy guy one of cookie monsters pals and took one of the little ittiy bitty toilet display Battery powered flush toilets sat the little guy on the seat and screwed it down to a floor flange...When my buddy the plumbing inspector stopped by i told him i was having a bit of a time trying to figure the correct fixture unit load on a new toilet:) he comes in looks at it and says well does it work?
so i flush the thing and it lets out the loud full flush sound and he says well thats the test.if it works i guess it must be right:))

jackchips_2

Oh rats,

forgot about the 10:00 o'clock show.

No, I rarely do seminars any more Scott. Heating is just something I do for family now and I don't have enough background to understand Siggy. Even many of his articles are over my head.

I do hope to be able to make Wetstock but will wait till the very end to sign up. I would just be an observer and want to meet some of the good folks on the wall so I'll let those who will gain more by going to sign up first. Plus I'll be just coming back from vacation a couple days before and might not have the time.

Where did you pull out the screw down toilet, was it on a low pressure system and did you save any?

For a change of pace one time Linda and I spent a long weekend on Cape Ann and it is a beautiful spot. We ended up at the Hammond Mansion on the way home and were quite fascinated by it.

Maybe we'll meet at Wetstock or ISH-looking forward to it.

Jack

Matt Undy

My old aprtment had that making the bend from the main to the galvanized under the street. The city replaced it because they were re-paving the street. It had been installed in 1926. The aprtment also still had lead waste in my bathroom whch was the original bath before the house was cut up into apartments. It wasn't leaking..the galvanized waste from the 40's was leaking all over the place.

Matt

EJW

History of Plumbing

The show was interesting. How bout those water heater explosion tests done by Watts?

ScottMP

Jack

My first trip to Wetstock was mainly just to meet the faces I had been speaking to. I spent more time making friends then I did learning. An argument could be made that I learned alot from those friendships. .

My favorite quote comes from John Hammond, who built Hammomd Castle. His claim to fame was as the inventor of remote control.

They asked him why a man of his knowledge and forsite, would live in a medevil castle.

" Live in the Past,
Work in the present,
Think in the future ! "

Sounds like Robert Bean dos'nt ?

Scott









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bob young

J. L. MOTT OF NEW YORK CITY

a four inch female tapped ferrule was wiped to the lead bend flush with finished floor. the china closet by j.l. mott had a male screw horn cast into the base of the pottery and was simply screwed into the female companion base fitting. if it was set in plaster ---it ain't comming out very easily. not in one piece anyway. j.l. mott made some primo stuff. fancy pedestals ,faucets w/ pewter finish etc. , etc.

jackchips_2

Thanks, Bob.

Do you recall if they were low pressure flush valves?

After breaking one out and seeing it screwed to the floor the second one turned right off with no problem. They were floor mounted and into either some type of cast iron fitting, not lead.

I don't recall any markings on the fixtures.

Jack

Bill_24

Screw in toilet

Ya i've seen the screw in toilets once, I work in a supply house and some guy for roto-rooter brought on in needing a replacment, sold him a new toilet and he wanted me to round file the old one for him. Thru it in my truck it now sits in my yard and I plant flowers in it every spring. Still has the old flush vlv. on it with a pretty porcilin handle. Can't remember the name on it but it has the date of 1908 paibnted on it in blue paint, under the glaze. I'll try to get the name off it tonight and re-post. It make a very unique looking planter.

Bill

Bill_24

Screw in toilet

Ya i've seen the screw in toilets once, I work in a supply house and some guy for roto-rooter brought on in needing a replacment, sold him a new toilet and he wanted me to round file the old one for him. Thru it in my truck it now sits in my yard and I plant flowers in it every spring. Still has the old flush vlv. on it with a pretty porcilin handle. Can't remember the name on it but it has the date of 1908 painted on it in blue paint, under the glaze. I'll try to get the name off it tonight and re-post. It makes a very unique looking planter.

Bill

Kevinj

Old Roman plumbing site

Check this out. Some neat old stuff from about 2000 years ago.


http://www.novanet.it/com/personale/togliard/nemi/nindex_e.htm

Jim Walls

The Sanitary-perfect Screw connection

As manufactured and furnished by the J.L. Matt Iron Works Of New York
"In these days of almost perfection in sanitary science, the connection of the water closet to the soil pipe is the one weak spot in an otherwise admirable system of house plumbing, the one connection that cannot be relied upon under all conditions. That absolute security is assured, and the question of careless or unskilful work disposed of by the sanitary-perfect screw connection, must be admitted by all; moreover, those who have seen and used this device do not hesitate to say that it solves the question of the water closet connection, and state, futhermore, that knowing such device to exist they would feel in duty bound to recommend the same to their clients as the only perfect connection which they could guarantee under all conditions."
As found in the "Johnson's New Handy Manual on Plumbing
Drainage Sewerage and Streamline" copyright 1940

EEE Gads ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it's Friday night & I'm quoting from old plumbing manuals !!!!!!

Scott Denny

Johnson's Manual

Jim

Scott Denny

Johnson's Manual

Jim
I just dug Johnson's manual out of my library. My copy is of the 18th edition, published in 1947. I believe it was one of my father's books from apprentice school. It cost him $2.00. The original copyright is from 1905.

Scott Denny

Old Books!

While I was looking for Johnson's manual, I found the Handbook of Cast Iron Pipe, published in 1927. I believe this one belonged to my maternal grandfather.

Jim Walls

Scott

The Johnson manual I was quoting from was the one just prior to yours (17th addition) It also has a mate, "Johnson's New Handy Manual on Heating Ventilating Mechanical Refrigeration and Air Conditioning".
I have his 7th addition which has a 1913 copyright, this one is combined plumbing,heating,ventilating,& mechanical refrigeration,,,,,,,,,,,,but is the same size as either of the other 2 from 1940,,,,,,,,,

Dave L_2

Museum

is right nextdoor to Supply house. I was up there in June and donated a 103 yr. old "Sitze" soaking tub I got off a job a while back. Very interesting place, a must if you are in the trade

Jim Bennett

Screw down closet

Is this one???

I've always wondered how this was set. It has "Prompto" printed on the front of the rim. If it is a screw down, is it "righty tighty-lefty loosey". What's chances it would come out in one piece if I had to remove it?

I don't guess I will have to take it off though. Seeing how it has probably been there since the building was built in 1908.

They don't build things like that anymore,

Jim

jackchips_2

It's been

so long, I don't recall what the ones I pulled looked liked but there was no information on them.

Is this one on a low pressure cistern system, Jim? That is how the ones I pulled operated.

If you go to change one, just give it a good wack with your hand to the left at the front of the bowl. After smashing one with my hammer that is how I was able to get the second one removed cleanly.

Thanks for the picture.

Jack

Jim Bennett

There are

two of these in the building and they are converted to Sloan flush valves. By "low pressure cistern" I'm guessing you mean the flush tank mounted on the wall above the closet, correct? I will have to look for evidence of this next time I'm in the building. I'll have to see what I can find out about JL Mott also.

Thanks for the info, another mystery solved!

Jim

jackchips_2

By cistern

I meant a copper tank in the attic that was fed from the town system and in turn supplied all the water to the toilets.

The toilets were then operated by a flush valve. When I changed out the toilets I removed the attic tank and piped everything with town water and pressure.

ScottMP

Hey Jack

You mean like this, right ?

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jackchips_2

Yes Scott,

but what is the "lead" bend? Some type of expansion overflow from a water heater?

It was always interesting working on those old ballcocks. The insulated wiring also brings back some fond memories.

Nice picture, thanks.