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Direct Vent with Oil Boiler?? GET RID OF CHIMNEY

for the power inducer, installing it, wiring it, adjusting it and the boiler, and the electrical costs to operate it....All in addition to the other arguments...KEEP IT SIMPLE
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Comments

  • anthonyanthony Posts: 72Member
    Can I direct Vent Oil Boiler outside w/o Chimney

    I am adding a second story to my house and the cost to raise my chimney is outrageous(and I did shop around). I was wondering if there was a way to direct vent my oil boiler to the outside and knock down my chimney?
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  • ed wallaceed wallace Posts: 1,613Member
    direct vent

    yesv you could direct vent but why would you its just more parts to break down the chimney is the best way

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  • joeljoel Posts: 116Member
    Yes

    You can direct vent with oil on some boilers approved for it. On boilers without true direct venting you can use a power venter . The Terjerlund Side Shot 2 works the best. BUT and that's a big but, I always recomend folks get a chimney , powerventers are very finicky and are a mechanical device that can break versus a chimney which has no moving parts. Power venters aren't really inexspensive in the long haul when you figure in added maintenance cost for cleanings and breakdowns.
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  • anthonyanthony Posts: 72Member


    the reason I want to do this again is to save $$. Its a lot cheaper to take a sledge hammer and knock down a chimney than it is to pay $1500 to raise the chimney?
    · ·
  • ed wallaceed wallace Posts: 1,613Member
    saving money

    there is no saving money with a power venter its going to breakdown on a cold as hell winter weekend and you will be without heat can you say frozen pipes do you realy want the repair bills from the plumber

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  • Bob BonaBob Bona Posts: 1,350Member ✭✭✭
    not

    without replacing the boiler with one that is intended for direct venting. Avoid power vents..the other guys said it all.

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  • ed wallaceed wallace Posts: 1,613Member
    power venting

    if you really really must do something as stupid as power venting make sure your electrician has more color wires than just black and white it will make it so much more easier to trouble shoot the problems if all the terminals are wired with differant colored wires and find out if electrician can work on it all heating guys hate power venters

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  • nick z.nick z. Posts: 157Member
    Saving money

    Price the power vent and installation. Remember it is another mech. part to fail when its 10 deg.on christmas eve.
    A chimmney will last foreverand not cost much more.
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  • billygoat22billygoat22 Posts: 116Member ✭✭


    Is triple wall pipe ok in your area? You could replace the chimney with a triple walled vent, less labor to install and no moving parts. And our techs hate power venters too. I had suggested one at a house where they didn't want to put in a chimney(new construction), but we ended up moving the furnace to vent it up a chase in the walls of the house instead. They enclosed the exposed pipe above the roof with EIFS(fake stucco).
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  • FranFran Posts: 4Member


    These guys have said it all. Power venters can be prone to fail from wind shifts, are not cheap to install and are not cheap to repair. Not all service companys stock the motors, fan timer switches, proof switches and other internal parts needed for that 3:00 AM NO HEAT call.

    I have installed several units of different manufacture and different models of the same manufacture and would much prefer to see a real chimney.

    You are not going to save any where near the $1500! with installation, you will be lucky to save $500 and that will be eaten up with within 5 years between routine cleanings and emergency service.
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  • John@ReliableJohn@Reliable Posts: 379Member
    Direct venting boiler

    Anthony, Do you need to replace boiler due to new heat loss? If so check out the Burnham LE boiler, which is a direct vent boiler with NO powervent. If your boiler is under 10 years old and can handle the new heatloss go with the chimney rise. "Pay now,or pay later!. While powervents do have a place if possiable try to avoid as they can be a high maintenance item over the years. Hope this helps John@Reliable P.S. have installed the LE with good results.
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  • John@ReliableJohn@Reliable Posts: 379Member
    Burnham LE is a direct vent boiler (No powervent)

    Subject: Direct venting boiler



    Anthony, Do you need to replace boiler due to new heat loss? If so check out the Burnham LE boiler, which is a direct vent boiler with NO powervent. If your boiler is under 10 years old and can handle the new heatloss go with the chimney rise. "Pay now,or pay later!. While powervents do have a place if possiable try to avoid as they can be a high maintenance item over the years. Hope this helps John@Reliable P.S. have installed the LE with good results.

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  • Take it from a guy who has one.

    DON"T DO IT.

    I have one and it's dialed in right and very efficient. Last winter the motor burned out and on a Sunday. No parts on Sunday. God rested and so does the rest of the world.

    I have been trying to work out a S.S. flue for the boiler to vent it up the side ofthe house.

    I put a new hi eff burnerin this winter and I had to revisit wiring all over again.

    The chimney never stopped working - except it was int he middle of the house and I needed the space so down it came.

    I've decided to build an outide home for the boiler and running some EcoFlex Pex to the house with a light in the house if the burner locks out. - PS. No Glycol, since I have a gerator and the pipe will be below the frost line.



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  • Peerless came out with a direct vent

    oil boiler also , the WV - DV . It is also direct vent with no power venter . Anyone use this setup yet ?
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  • FloydFloyd Posts: 429Member
    Now wait just a doggone minute!!!!

    I have installed many power venters on oil and have had very little problem with them!!!!
    The chimneys still need to be cleaned and birds can still fly down them and plug the pipe,
    the darn squirrels love to jump in and commit suicide in them....... AND lately with some of the
    eff. the the newer burners have been getting too...... condensation can be a problem ALSO!!!!!!!

    Before you guys go making a blanket statement about power venters step back and look objectively!!!!
    I can control the draft with a power venter MUCH better than with a chimney!!!! That darn chimney is suckkin'
    the warm air outta your house 24/7!!!!! With the power venter there is little to no draft when the boiler is off!!!!
    If are settin' up the burner on a warm cloudy mucky day how do you know what the draft will be on a cold clear night??? or a day when the wind is whippin' like mad and the ole' baro damper is slappin' like a snare drum????

    Maybe you guy all don't have those kinds of days where you live???? I forget that things like the weather are
    totally different out here in the booney's???? NOT!!!!!!

    Get a good power venter!!!!!! Get a good heat guy that knows how to set it up!!!!!! A you will be a happy camper for a LONG time!!!!!

    Floyd
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  • FloydFloyd Posts: 429Member
    Axeman-Anderson

    They have a direct vent, with no power vent also....

    There are other GOOD options.......

    My vote is for NO chimney!!!!!!

    They suck!!! (pun intended)

    Floyd
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  • Roger LitmanRoger Litman Posts: 64Member
    Power venters

    While there are some times that they are necessary, by and large the trade does not like them, one thing that hasn't been said is the soot that can cover the house if the boiler malfunctions. We have generally used them with a boiler that has a plugged boiler switch.( a draft gauge system). An other problem is that flue gases can enter the house through an open window when the wind is right. They also tend to be noisy.

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  • Steve EayrsSteve Eayrs Posts: 425Member
    Buderus w/ reillo also has a direct vent ...

    without a power venter, BUT WHY? A simple rule....If it moves it will break. Even without a power venter, their are purge controls, and additional things to go wrong, vs. a chimney.
    Also you need to consider the heat loss from the purge cycle, which is a few minites of pulling direct outside cold air, directly through the heat exchanger that was just heated up by the oil burner. Who cares if it sucks or blows, if its cooling off the heat exchanger, you are losing heat outside.
    Stick to the chimney, or L vent stack material, and you will be better off in the long run.
    And you should never have to clean the chimney or L vent stack, on a good running oil fired boiler. If you do, then you have an old beater that needs replaced, have other burner problems or never really had it tuned up to begin with.
    STeve
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  • FrankFrank Posts: 107Member
    power vent vs direct vent

    They are not one in the same.
    a power vent has a moter that can and will fail.
    a direct vent has no motor, and takes all combustion air from outside saving lots of money from infiltration and standby loss. A very good way to go. If set up RIGHT , no sooting!!!!
    You probably can't go that root with your older boiler, boiler must be rated for this ( fairly new concept).
    $1500 for chimney? not too bad compared to installing a power vent wich will be about half the money of the chimney, what little you save here isn't worth it . go chimney in your case.
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  • ScottScott Posts: 5,884Member
    Sorry Floyd

    I think your in your own court on this one. :)

    My opinion is , Yes they work. Yes, sometimes its the best option.

    But show me a house with an oil power venter and I'll show you stains on the outside of the house.

    I'll take a chimney anyday.

    Now gas ......

    Scott

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  • FloydFloyd Posts: 429Member
    That's okay......

    I'm a big boy and I can stand alone if I have too.....
    I just have not had the problems with them that it seems some others have had.....
    Yes, they are a pain in the butt to wire, and yes they do fail once in a while, but so do
    inducer motors for HA furnaces and inducers for gas boilers and nobady's bitchin' about them!!!!!
    AND you can never find the right inducer motor when you need it!!!! Plus they cost way more than
    a venter motor because you have to get the whole deal when you replace them!!!!
    A venter motor is very easy to change and is realatively inexspensive.
    In my opinion a person would be much farther ahead of the game even if they kept a replacement
    motor on hand, in case theirs failed.

    Chimney's are a pain in the butt also!!!! They crack, lean, plug up, etc.... I have cleaned many that haven't
    been checked for years and have caused the oil burner to soot the house up.....have seen some that are
    blowing the flue gases right out through the baro. into the house!!!!!!!

    I think you guys are bashing technology here.....just like the pilot/ignition controversy........
    I don't understand it???? On one hand we embarce all the many innovations and progress with piping
    and heating controls, injection pumping, reset controls, etc..... BUT.... we are afraid to make progress with
    some of the simplest issues!!!!!!

    I feel very strongly that chimeny's are obsolete!!!!!! CHANGE is GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Floyd
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  • Steve EbelsSteve Ebels Posts: 904Member
    Read any boiler mfgr's manula

    And it will say the following. I'll quote from Viessmann's. "Whenever possible utilize a chimney for venting this boiler."

    I might try a direct vent Buderus boiler but I will never again install a power vent on anything. If it has to be power vented I will not do the job. To many problems. High maintenance item. Lots of headaches for you and cost down the road.
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  • ScottScott Posts: 5,884Member
    Yes but ...

    Are you refering to gas or oil ??

    I will power vent any gas applaince any day!!

    I use Muchkin boilers as much as possible and they direct vent !!

    Oil power venters just seem to be problematic. That would lead me to believe the tech bashing is mainly for oil units.

    ??

    Scott

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  • ed wallaceed wallace Posts: 1,613Member
    power venting

    scott we are bashing any mechanical power venters gas or oil direct vent is a totally differant story

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  • anthonyanthony Posts: 72Member
    YEP

    Thats was my original post about DIRECT VENT. Not power venting. I checked out the Burnham LEDV. Looks like I have to use a propriatary burner too. Should I worry about BREAK/FIX parts for this. And yes this is for a new boiler install. I have the orig which is about 37 years old and time to upgrade.
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  • they should be outlawed

    i made that mistake when i added an oil boiler to my house. i shut my boiler off when i have a cookout, i keep all my windows shut on that side of the house at all times but sometimes the wind blows it around the corner and fills up my house through an open window- it smells like a diesel. the motor has burned out twice in 10 years. the nozzel clogged 2 years ago- what a mess check out the picture below, i convinced a customer to go with a chimney after they seen the pic. and what about gas fumes blowing back into the house ? i've read that less than 1 percent carbon monoxide can kill you why do we allow it? it seems to me that we should be more careful about how we pipe the most dangerous gasses out of the house. bob
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  • anthonyanthony Posts: 72Member
    interesting

    was this a power vent or direct.

    Also by nozzel do you mean on the burner itself? Why would that be?
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  • anthony

    it was a fields power venter. the oil burner nozzel clogged and i got all that soot. go with a chimney, i insist on chimneys when 1 of my customers builds a house. bob
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  • JimJim Posts: 18Member
    Hee hee ha ha ho ho

    Anthony, you crack me up. I'm laughing so hard my eyes are watering. You have enough money to add an entire second story to a building but now want to turn cheap and forego the chimney. I say that you should tear out that chimney at once and live with all the problems your miserliness will bring. Ha ha ha ha ha. I want to impart to you wisdom here Anthony soooooooo listen up. Are you listening? Good, cuz here goes. Mechanicals of a building are usually not noticed or easily seen. Proper plumbing, properly sized chimneys, properly installed heating and cooling syetems, and the list goes on, of which all tie several things together cost bucks. Comfort, economy to operate, reliability, little to no service and only routine maintenance, for the owner aren't things to be assumed. If for fifteen hundred dollars, you want to slight the mechanicals and go for the cosmetics and six panel doors, go for it.
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  • hereticheretic Posts: 159Member
    Codes

    Do most codes allow venting onto a patio area?
    I thought that was not typically allowed.
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  • hereticheretic Posts: 159Member
    Triple Wall SS

    Instead of direct vent, you may be able to frame an external chase (pseudo-chimney) to house a new SS flue. Probably not any cheaper, but you do gain some interior floor space. With required masonry clearances, this space can be substantial. You see this method a lot on 'buildups' in my area, and it actually looks ok. Also, a SS flue has less mass, so it heats up more quickly, and stays cleaner.
    Sound like you are out some money no matter what, so you may as well get some space back out of the deal.
    Just an idea.
    Best of luck.
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  • heatboyheatboy Posts: 1,468Member
    Advantages and disadvantages.

    Having installed numerous power venters over the years as well as connecting oil boiler to chimneys, I would opt for a chimney every time. That being said, it is not always feasible to have a chimney. I have had no failures of power venters I have installed in the last ten years. But I can tell there will be some replacements within a few years on some of the older ones I have. I haven’t had any issues with soot, but I double or triple filter my fuel supply and take the time to dial in the combustion.

    Advantages to power venting:

    Lower initial installation cost (questionable). Lower off cycle losses (depending on boiler) via the exhaust. Draft, once set, is the same every cycle.

    Disadvantages to power venting:

    Noisy. Fuel oil exhaust is as corrosive an atmosphere as you’ll find, so component life is not infinite. Electrical consumption for a Tjerlund SS is around 200 watts, so it must be taken into consideration in over all energy consumption. Must be aware of prevailing winds, so boiler placement is critical. Noisy. While some people actually like the smell of #2 exhaust, I’m not one of them. Preventative maintenance on boilers with power venters cost more, or should due to the time to take apart and clean fan, etc. Did I mention they’re noisy?

    Another note. Just because something becomes more commonplace, doesn’t automatically make it the best option.

    Warm Regards,

    hb

    "Expert in Silent Warmth"™

    888-UB-COMFY

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    heatboy



    The Radiant Whisperer





    "The laws of physics will outweigh the laws of ecomomics every time."
    · ·
  • John@ReliableJohn@Reliable Posts: 379Member
    Anthony, parts are not

    a problem. The burner is a Beckett AFII and all standard parts but the transformer which has a different base plate than a Beckett "A" "AF" "AFG" burner. But most supply houses would have it.I have installed afew LEDV with very good results, there web site shows a good view of unit and what you see outside Hope this helps John@Reliable
    · ·
  • MarkMark Posts: 13Member
    water dammage

    Bob , did you ever get any water dammage that year , due to the hose hangin' from that frost free spigot?
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  • ed wallaceed wallace Posts: 1,613Member
    no chimney

    well if you dont want a chimney can i suggest that you put in an electric boiler that way you dont need a chimney or power venter that solves your 1500.00 problem and you can pay thru the nose for electricity

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  • Roger LitmanRoger Litman Posts: 64Member
    Power venting gas fired systems

    If we get the flue gases entering the house when we power vent oil, why don't we get the flue gases entering the house when we power vent natural gas- the biggest difference may be that oil flue gases have a distinct odor and the natural gas flue gases don't, but they do contain CO which is odorless and tasteless. Could this be a problem especially with a maladjusted system? Inquiring minds want to know.

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    · ·
  • Yes Roger, good reason

    to do a combustion and CO test on every system. I have seen power venters on the ocean side of houses here in new england that would stall out with with winds over 40 mph. This is also why many of these vents rot and corrode.
    · ·
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