Love that dirty water

Daniel_3

Installed this boiler about 8 years ago; a Burnham IN7. That gauge glass water just gets dirtier and dirtier. Had a horizontal riser snap right off of a reduction bushing from the main and that was the most recent time the system was opened up though it was very clean inside the pipes. Must have been a bad casting(original from the system). I don't use too much make up water, maybe fill 1/8 of the gauge glass every 2-3 months during the heating season. I'm thinking this burnham is just rusting from the inside more and more.....whaddya think fellas?

Daniel_3

I will add that the water level is very calm during the cycle. The system is quiet and does it's job just right.

srmaietta

You drain a bit every week or so and it just stays dirty like that? Have you ever flushed it all out? You could try ruining some cleaner in it for a cycle or so...

~Steve

BobC

Flush it out good and perhaps use a wand to wash it out. Then refill it and add one or 2 Steam master tablets to raise the PH of the water.

That should slow down the oxidation.

Bob

Daniel_3

Never flushed the whole thing out but there was a plug somewhere last year and the whole system over filled to the rads on the first floor. This was cured but it the rusty water was similar to before that event. I've never done a blow down on the gauge and I have periodically drained sludge from the loop. I like to keep the water as "virgin" as possible not making up too much as I would with a new complete fill. I've never tried chemicals before. I would say other than the water appearance this one pipe steamer is cream puff.

BobC

Do you know if the water in your area is high in chlorides?

Bob

Daniel_3

CaCl runs about 9.2 ppm

Daniel_3

Sorry, chloride is 30 ppm and calcium is 9.2. My homebrewing synapses are firing instead.

Daniel_3

BobC said:

Flush it out good and perhaps use a wand to wash it out. Then refill it and add one or 2 Steam master tablets to raise the PH of the water.

That should slow down the oxidation.

Bob

BobC said:

Flush it out good and perhaps use a wand to wash it out. Then refill it and add one or 2 Steam master tablets to raise the PH of the water.

That should slow down the oxidation.

Bob

Just noticed this post Bob, I will try it.

Daniel_3

Not sure what happens to the ph with the master tablets but 7.6 is our water. After multiple boils in a boiler and heavy minerals/compound dropping out of suspension does the ph change?

BobC

I'm not that good at chemistry (except for brewing beer) but others here are and perhaps they will comment.

I've been using the steam master in my boiler for 3 years and my boiler water (now PH 9.5) is as clean as it was when I initially filled it. I think it's cheap insurance.

Bob

jonny88

Could you take a pic of piping?What caused the bushing to snap?Would be nice if you had king valves and return valve to blow it down under pressure.Look at a pic by Dave0176 to give an indication of a nice install.I believe Chrisj shows how to use the wand on his page.

Daniel_3

I'll try to get a pic after work but it's all good. I have posts in my backlog with photos from that install. Thanks for the way to the wand procedure. No way I'm going through the trouble of installing king and return valves; headache city at this point and I'm sure 2.5" gate valves are not cheap like they were 8 years ago. I know it would make a blow down really easy though. I have double tapped full size risers and a 3" equalizer. All properly pitched and sized in black pipe. Yes, below the water line I used copper for the loop which may irk the purists.

Maybe a full drain, spray down with a wand, and using the steam master tablets will solve my issue. I'd try that first before wrenching back into the near boiler piping( of course if I had to tear it down due to neglect and knuckleheadedness I would redo).

Fred

I think a drain and a good wash out in the spring is all you need. This is where I think the old manual MM #67 LWCO with a weekly blow down is functionally superior to the new probe type LWCO and no blow down capability. Convenience rules, I guess.

ChrisJ

Wash it out with a wand and throw 1 to 2 steamaster tablets in it.
Your water will be a pretty clean purple color and will never turn nasty brown again.

Your boiler will thank you.

Frank_the_Tank

As others have said, using a washout wand will do wonders. If you have a skim tapping, start up there and then insert the wand into the lower drain port, flushing from the side opposite of the drain and working your way out of the boiler.

I am currently using Rhomar Hydro-Steam 9150 in my system. I bought a full gallon from Park Supply of America, which is only 2 uses on my system, which holds about 30 gal between the boiler and the wet return piping.

Steamaster tabs aren't really cleaners, more just pH control and oxygen scavenging. Once your system is finally clean, throw however many you need in there to get your pH up into the 9.5-10 range, since you have a push nipple boiler. Get some Ph strips or a pH meter, which you can also use to check your mash pH for home brewing.

In the off season, fill 'er up into the risers with water and let it steam to drive off oxygen.

Daniel_3

Great advice guys, thanks a bunch. Prost!

ChrisJ

Steamaster tablets will check your PH for you.
I can't remember exactly, but I believe they are blue when the PH is below 7 and purple when you're above.

Basically, add enough so the water turns purple, which is usually 1 tablet. I run 2 tablets but do so with caution, you may have problems with carry over. If you do, just drain water out and add fresh water and the problem will go away.

I did some experimenting to figure out what the color meant using ammonia and vinegar to change the ph (in a bucket, not my boiler).

No matter how many tablets you add, your PH will never go above 9 or 10. But you will get foaming and carry over because one of the chemicals in them causes it in too high of a concentration.

Daniel_3

Thanks a bunch. I pulled the gauge glass and had to clean out a good bit of sediment. I also cleaned the lower return to the boiler from the loop. Both helped to clean things up a bit before doing a full drain and refill. It's clear water now after cycle but during still turbid. Will try all your advice once I get the rectorseal tablets.

Daniel_3

So I got the tablets and the directions state 6 tablets per 100 edr for a very dirty boiler and 4 tablets per 100 edr for a new install. So I've got 530 some odd soft of edr. Methinks one tablet won't be enough but going on color is the way?

BobC

One tablet is usually enough, it may take two but no more on that size boiler. There instructions are wildly off base for residential steamers.
Bob

Fred

@ChrisJ uses those tablets faithfully and he says 2 tablets is what he does. Any more and he has issues. You boiler is a bit larger so maybe 3 tablets but let's see what he thinks.

ChrisJ

No don't go over 2.

Daniel_3

Well, I did 3 so we'll see what happens. No color change to the water with that new refill just an hour ago. Still clear. I dumped the loop and swished a few times with water pressure then refilled with the tablets.

ChrisJ

Chances are you're going to find you have serious foaming issues, but who knows maybe not.

Worse case, if you find the boiler is puking it's contents, just drain a bunch of water out and refill.

Daniel_3

That's my end game if indeed it does foam up. Thanks for the insight Chris.

ChrisJ

Good news is it's harmless.

Daniel_3

Oh yeah, wanted to give a thumbs up to your build at home. Really nice work you did there!

ChrisJ

Thank you!

Daniel_3

So I think after some days of heating cycles the boiled off volatiles foamed up and spewed through the end of the line wall rad this morning. Took some time but it did happen with the three tablets. I drained half and refilled with fresh water. Better now. Since I put those tablets in the water has been cloudy with rust ever since and has not cleared up so the tablets are to some effect keeping the sediment in suspension. I've been unable to tell the color thus far.

ChrisJ

Daniel said:

So I think after some days of heating cycles the boiled off volatiles foamed up and spewed through the end of the line wall rad this morning. Took some time but it did happen with the three tablets. I drained half and refilled with fresh water. Better now. Since I put those tablets in the water has been cloudy with rust ever since and has not cleared up so the tablets are to some effect keeping the sediment in suspension. I've been unable to tell the color thus far.

Yes,
There's something in them that keeps stuff from settling. There's also something that keeps minerals from attaching to the metal as well I believe.

What size boiler was this, gallon wise? If it's around 10-12 gallons 2 tablets max, many run 1. 3 or 4 tablets will help clean things up though as you're noticing.

A complete drain and rinse will help followed by 1 or 2 tablets. In the end you'll have a spotless boiler minus the rust coming back from all of the radiators, there's no way to stop that. Distilled water is corrosive unfortunately.

Dean_7

Burnham Independence PV4 now 3 years old with use of 2 steammaster tablets. You can't really see it in the picture but the water is a light purple color.

Daniel_3

Just shows I should have used these during my initial install and onwards.

Daniel_3

ChrisJ said:

Daniel said:

So I think after some days of heating cycles the boiled off volatiles foamed up and spewed through the end of the line wall rad this morning. Took some time but it did happen with the three tablets. I drained half and refilled with fresh water. Better now. Since I put those tablets in the water has been cloudy with rust ever since and has not cleared up so the tablets are to some effect keeping the sediment in suspension. I've been unable to tell the color thus far.

Yes,
There's something in them that keeps stuff from settling. There's also something that keeps minerals from attaching to the metal as well I believe.

What size boiler was this, gallon wise? If it's around 10-12 gallons 2 tablets max, many run 1. 3 or 4 tablets will help clean things up though as you're noticing.

A complete drain and rinse will help followed by 1 or 2 tablets. In the end you'll have a spotless boiler minus the rust coming back from all of the radiators, there's no way to stop that. Distilled water is corrosive unfortunately.

Then I will do that very thing you suggest. Thanks!