Weil-McLain steam boiler replacement

Robert O'Connor_12

Existing was a Weil-McLain EGH-115 (500,000 BTU 1250 sq. ft. steam) with small condensate pump (Ventright #PC6N) and an auto feeder. System totaled 1767 sq. ft steam (the 115 was too small and never generated any pressure and barely heated the place) . Existing three mains have Honeywell steam zone valves on them (Ugh!)
New boiler is a an LGB-7 (780,000 @ 1936 sq ft) with Hoffman 50 HBF feed unit. I wish I could of gotten a smaller tank but the alternative had a vertical tapping and was too high to make it via gravity (and I like gravity) . I had to remove one of the small water boilers that were kinda cramping the limited space in that pit. One of them wasn't needed anymore so it worked out well and now I had a little room for the tank. This system is in real bad shape. A lot of hands have been on it, and it isn't good. After getting the boiler back on line a discovered why the old one went. There's a huge steam leak under a large meeting room floor that hasn't been addressed yet but I suspect with all that oxygen if not repaired the new one will suffer the same fate as the last one. I also found same return 75'ft away they installed a drain and were dumping condensate into a garbage can with a sump pump in it, and were discharging into sewer. Hopefully the owners will continue to allow me to repair this system. It would be shame to see it all eaten up!

Abracadabra

The original header was also piped incorrectly. Steam takeoffs to the mains from between the boiler risers. New one looks good.

Robert O'Connor_12

Yes they were ,
and thanks!

jonny88

Thats a pretty hefty boiler.How is she running?What did you do with the other side outlet?Thanks for sharing.

ChrisJ

Never generated any pressure and barely heated the place.
Never generated pressure is a good thing in my book. Barely heated the place obviously isn't.

Was a 56% increase in size really necessary?

jonny88

Thats what I thought Chris,less pressure the better and get your results through proper venting.

Robert O'Connor_12

The warranted increase in size wasn't done by accident gents. The old boiler was just too small.
I didn't use the 2nd outlet because there just isn't the funds too.
Is it a better job? Of course it is. Was it according to the manufactures installation instructions? you bet! By using the second tapping, you are significantly changing the layout and ultimately the cost.
When your bidding against 5 other people, you start cutting costs (my original quote was to use both supply tapings and this is the 3rd time around amending quotes) . These customers could spend that money wiser in any number of other locations in this system but they just don't have it. I mean, there dumping the condensate down the drain now because it's not returning due to significant leak under floor, 2 out of the 3 steam zone valves don't fully close and I told them they needed at least 12 Gorton #2's at various locations and they can't even afford that. There are 6 f&t traps that are blowing by. I gave them a itemized punch list quote of what I feel needs to be addressed but for now, they got proper heat, where before they did not & I get paid!
Boilers running great! Skimmed the heck out it over the course of 2 days. Nice and steady water line for now. I'm sure the constant make up water will change that shortly.
Robert O'Connor/NJ

ChrisJ

Dumping condensate down a drain because they can't afford to fix it? Buying a new boiler every 5 to 10 years isn't cheap either

Robert O'Connor_12

ChrisJ, I can't jus turn down work just because customers don't share my views either. They have clearly been made aware of system deficiencies. If they don't heed good advice, then I'll be there in 5 years doing this dance again!

Robert O'Connor/NJ

BobC

You can lead the horse to water, you can't make him drink.

Bob

vaporvac

I think it's great that you give them options and a punch list that they can save towards completing. My tile roofer does that with me and every year I get one or two more things ticked off. Otherwise it's overwhelming. I started my boiler fund a couple of years ahead of my estimate for a average boiler lifespan, knowing about what it would cost. This must be a big place to need so much. Aren't there some really big vents available instead of so many #2s?

Fred

I'm sure you explained to them the consequences of not following through and making the other repairs. That's all you can do, unless you're in the business of buying materials and doing the work for free. Money is tight for a lot of people. They got a quality install and hopefully they will find their way to do the remaining work in the near future. It sounds like they could do some of it themselves if push comes to shove, like putting in new wet returns above the floor and installing vents.

Robert O'Connor_12

block porn lol.
pressure testing after assembly

SWEI

vaporvac said:

Aren't there some really big vents available instead of so many #2s?

I continue to ask...

ChrisJ

SWEI said:

vaporvac said:

Aren't there some really big vents available instead of so many #2s?

I continue to ask...

Yes,
Using one of those huge radiator traps as a vent, or the idea of a large 1" or larger normally closed solenoid + thermostatic switch.

vaporvac

I think @jstar used some huge one in an install last year. Maybe I'll try looking it up unless he pops in to this conversation.
Update: Found it! apparently jstar saw it first used my @steamhead, but I can't find that post. This entire thread is worthy of a concetrated read. Here's the link: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/148259/large-venting-job-nicholson-trap#latest

This is Jstar's comment and description: "On the long 6" main, we installed a Nicholson C73HC thermostatic trap as the main vent. I saw Steamhead use this on a job a while ago, and couldn't wait to see this trap in action. It is the equivalent of 20 Gorton #2's. The main was hot in 5 minutes. Impressive!"

He also gives this option for using a radiator trap:
Monash #48 vents about the same as 2 Gorton 2's

And our old friend @MDNLansing (what happened to him?) had this suggestion for a vacuum system: "The Monash 52 with a swing check worked very well on my vacuum system. Leaps and bounds better than a cluster of Hoffman Vacuum Vents. Installed on a slight incline, the condensate between the trap and check valve drains right back once it cools. "

2nd update: Found @Steamhead 's original post!
http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/142217/The-King-Of-All-Crossover-Traps

JUGHNE

Is the skim port on the horizontal 3/4" pipe that the PRV is connected to? Does that work out well for a boiler of this size?

Robert O'Connor_12

The PRV is on the make up water line connected to the feed unit.
I'm using the same tapping as the relief valve which is 1"