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CFM through wall cavities.

How many CFM is a reasonable number to figure in a 2x4 wall cavity with studs 16" on center? Like wise 2x6?


Thanks

Comments

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,689
    what do you mean ??
    Air infiltration ?
    or,
    Like a ducted return for forced air ?
    known to beat dead horses
    ryanhowser
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    A wall stud space return on a forced air system.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,689
    this is my second disclaimer today,
    I am not a contractor, nor engineer,
    but I found this for ya,
    www.comfort-calc.net/cfm_chart.html
    says 3x14 = 150 cfm,
    not sure how to apply length of run though,
    others should chime in,
    known to beat dead horses
    Harvey Ramer
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,160
    150 cfm would give you 8 feet per second in that space. Which might be OK for smooth duct -- but the inside of a stud space isn't smooth, and your head loss would be quite high, seems to me. But that's just a gut feeling.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Harvey Ramericesailor
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    I'd be nervous figuring more than a 100 CFM but I really can't find any manual D data on the equivalent length and friction rates.
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited March 2015
    Well I guess that depends on your design return static. If using .05 I'd KindaSorta say 100CFM is a good #, all that rough surface and all. . At .08 its a little more. Can you line the wall cavity with custom made trunk to get the CFM up a bit. I saw something somewhere about using the wall cavity, now where the *ell is it?
    Harvey Ramer
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    My total ESP is .5 The friction rate of the duct system is .094 per/100' of effective length.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,689
    how much derating should you really need to do for 2x4/2x6 and sheetrock, that's can't be all that rough, even if there's a wire or 2,
    now if we're talking old rough sawn, lathe and plaster keys , , ,
    then I can see quite a turbulent pathway.
    known to beat dead horses
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    OK ,I see your point, but,what cfm would you recommend?
  • Spence
    Spence Member Posts: 316
    Group 7, page 163.
    Harvey Ramer
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Thanks
  • Spence
    Spence Member Posts: 316
    Sure is wonderful to see someone who cares!
    Harvey Ramer
  • NJ, Designer
    NJ, Designer Member Posts: 53
    Manual D 3rd Edition, Appendix 3, Fitting Equivalent Lengths, Group 7 Panned Joists and Panned stud return air fittings. page 163, Reference Velocity = 700 FPM, Friction rate = 0.08 IWC per 100ft. 200 CFM maximum in stud space, 400 CFM maximum in Joist space.

    It Doesn't say anything about a 2x6, I would Guess around 300 CFM, unless they are only talking about 2x6 stud space, But I don't think so.....

    I have not opened that book in a while but is sitting right behind me where it belongs. I used to have it on a PDF can't find it now.

    Contact me if you need some more help....
    Harvey Ramer
  • NJ, Designer
    NJ, Designer Member Posts: 53
    Found it, if you can open excel spreadsheets go to http://www.acca.org/standards/acca-speed-sheets/

    Download the speed sheet for Manual D and open the G7 tab.
    Harvey RamerSWEIRich_49
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239

    Found it, if you can open excel spreadsheets go to http://www.acca.org/standards/acca-speed-sheets/

    Download the speed sheet for Manual D and open the G7 tab.

    Thanks! Very helpful!
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    OK ALL WELL AND GOOD, NOW!What does that give you for an UN-panned chase,Mr.Harvey? I'm lowerrrr down in the trenches than you!
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Welll.... I really don't know how you would figure that one out. Unless the pressure drop was large enough to take a physical measurement.
  • Spence
    Spence Member Posts: 316
    Since there is no roughness index for unpanned air spaces, it is safe to assume unpanned spaces have the same friction rate as does duct liner.
  • ryanhowser
    ryanhowser Member Posts: 1
    edited January 2016
    You normally wouldn't want to use a 2 x 6 studs space for return air because no one would ever use an exterior wall for return air. Unless of course you don't mind having No insulation in that stud space or really hot or really cold return air temp on extreme dayson 2 x 4x16 studs space I usually account for 150-175 CFM at .05 static or 225-250 at .1 static. the legnth doesn't matter it can be 10' or 100'
    Rich_49
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    I am quite aware that you don't use outside wall cavities for return air.

    Would you care to elaborate a little on how you derived the calculations you posted above? Not sure I agree with them.
    EzzyT
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    More cfm @ at a higher static while nothing else changes???
    Steve Minnich
    Rich_49Canucker
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    Welcome to HeatingHelp.com Doogie Howser , oh sorry , Ryan
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    40 cfm if your lucky......
  • aircooled81
    aircooled81 Member Posts: 205
    I like the ductulator for quick refrences. if you want to engineer this to an exact science, there are books for that.
    my quick math is, 0.5" static on the return, 4" stud (actual 3-1/2" stud) by 16" centers (subtract 1-1/2") would be 3-1/2x14-1/2 = to 50-3/4" free air space. plug that into ductulator, aprox 480cfm @ about 1500fpm. oh boy that does not sound realistic, but if your fan can pull that wall down that low, it might be a bit loud at the register!
    for 2x6 wall cavity, about 950cfm @ 520 fpm.

    anyone disagree with these numbers, for a loose observation?