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Oddball shut off valve
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frankc1128
Member Posts: 1
So I had this problem and I wanted to share just in case someone had the same issue somewhere and it drove them as crazy as it did I. This may be a little long but I think the details are important and I have not found a similar issue anywhere on the site.
Although I had knowledge of steam systems from my experience as a plumbers assistant I have learned a fair amount from reading the Heating Help forums. I have a Weil McClain boiler in a old colonial home that did not have a ounce of insulation in it when I purchased it. Due to that, the boiler would run constatnly to keep the house warm. I took the time to balance the system to make it run somewhat more efficiently than the previous owners had it but it still cost me a lot of money to heat my home. However, the system was quiet. As it should be.
When I finally added some insulation to the home (2nd floor renovated) the steam system was now out of balance, however it did shut down much more than it used to, even had a chance to cool down a little. This is where the problem began.
Because the system would now actually shut off and produce condensation one radiator began boiling and hammering as if it was a turkey fryer about to explode when the system would heat up again from an evening or weekend shut down. I would turn the thermostat down to 60 when I slept or went away and had it programmed for 70 when I woke up. Once the system was hot the noise stopped. I went crazy trying to figure out why. I rebalanced the house, properly insulated the main, added a Gorton NO. 2 main vent (main was already vented with two No. 1's). I checked the pitch of the radiator and main pipes, made sure the shut off valve was not falling apart inside. I may have lost some hair over this.
So to bring this to an end this is what I finally discovered. If you take a look at the two photos I attached you can notice a difference between the two valves. The left one was on the problem radiator. These are both 1 inch valves. On the output side of the left picture the valve sizes down to almost 3/4 of an inch. Then inside of that 3/4" there is a lip that the condensate has to climb over before it drains back into the system (sorry I did not provide that picture). Now look a the picture on the right. This valve has a full port on the output side and no lip for the condensate to have to fill up to before it finally spills back into the return. It had a equal size port on both sides. All of the other radiators in the house had this second valve and they didn't make a sound. After all I had tried to this point I figured what is a few more dollars if it brings peace of mind. And I now have my peace of mind. I changed the valve to one that had a larger output side and the radiator has silenced. The steam and condensate are no longer getting in each others way. You would have thought I bought a new car at the joy that came with this resolution.
I hope I didn't bore anyone and that this info will be a help to someone else.
Although I had knowledge of steam systems from my experience as a plumbers assistant I have learned a fair amount from reading the Heating Help forums. I have a Weil McClain boiler in a old colonial home that did not have a ounce of insulation in it when I purchased it. Due to that, the boiler would run constatnly to keep the house warm. I took the time to balance the system to make it run somewhat more efficiently than the previous owners had it but it still cost me a lot of money to heat my home. However, the system was quiet. As it should be.
When I finally added some insulation to the home (2nd floor renovated) the steam system was now out of balance, however it did shut down much more than it used to, even had a chance to cool down a little. This is where the problem began.
Because the system would now actually shut off and produce condensation one radiator began boiling and hammering as if it was a turkey fryer about to explode when the system would heat up again from an evening or weekend shut down. I would turn the thermostat down to 60 when I slept or went away and had it programmed for 70 when I woke up. Once the system was hot the noise stopped. I went crazy trying to figure out why. I rebalanced the house, properly insulated the main, added a Gorton NO. 2 main vent (main was already vented with two No. 1's). I checked the pitch of the radiator and main pipes, made sure the shut off valve was not falling apart inside. I may have lost some hair over this.
So to bring this to an end this is what I finally discovered. If you take a look at the two photos I attached you can notice a difference between the two valves. The left one was on the problem radiator. These are both 1 inch valves. On the output side of the left picture the valve sizes down to almost 3/4 of an inch. Then inside of that 3/4" there is a lip that the condensate has to climb over before it drains back into the system (sorry I did not provide that picture). Now look a the picture on the right. This valve has a full port on the output side and no lip for the condensate to have to fill up to before it finally spills back into the return. It had a equal size port on both sides. All of the other radiators in the house had this second valve and they didn't make a sound. After all I had tried to this point I figured what is a few more dollars if it brings peace of mind. And I now have my peace of mind. I changed the valve to one that had a larger output side and the radiator has silenced. The steam and condensate are no longer getting in each others way. You would have thought I bought a new car at the joy that came with this resolution.
I hope I didn't bore anyone and that this info will be a help to someone else.
0
Comments
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We just replaced one of those valves today. Same basic problem, except this one never got bad enough to bang. Bet you got a LOT of water draining out of that radiator when you disconnected the valve.
They sold a lot of these things back in the '90s. We still see them out there. If the valve is oversized for the radiator, they sometimes work OK. More often they don't.All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Could the left one had been for hot water only?0
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Yes, if you drilled a hole thru the washer so a little water would flow to keep it from freezing.All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
I was referring to the valve body pattern that did not allow condensate to counterflow back freely. Yes I see the need to have a bleed port for some water flow.
The supplier I use stocks RWV valves, and they say they are for steam or hot water. Of course there is no bleed port. The RWV lit refers to them as "steam radiator valves. B&G lit has 185c supply valves "suitable for hot water, cold water or steam". So it is up to the installer to provide the port for hot water use?
Most rads today are not prone to freezing unless the entire house does. However that orphan on the cold back porch could use this feature, yes?
Steamhead, thanks for bringing that to our attention.0
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