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seeking recommendations for thermostat and a question about air vents

musicrc
musicrc Member Posts: 5
edited October 2014 in THE MAIN WALL
We finally found a contractor who understands and enjoys working with steam heat. He recommended this web page, which I've been reading over the past several days. He did a bunch of work...the annual cleaning, plus he downfired the boiler, reduced the pressure, and fixed a few other things...and taught me about our one-pipe system. But now that he's gone, I've got some questions that I hope you folks can answer.

I'd like a simple programmable thermostat. The contractor told me the system would be more efficient if we only turn the temp down a few degrees at night, but we like it cooler than that for sleeping. Trouble is...it's pretty chilly in the morning. We have two wires for the thermostat. I'm not sure what difference it makes, but it must be limiting in some way. The contractor told me to make sure the thermostat is set up for steam. Any recommendations?

My other question has to do with the radiator in the kitchen. It makes a pfffff sound as long as the boiler is running. At some point, the pitch increases so that it becomes more of a whistle. Seems to me that must mean that air or steam is continually coming out of the air vent even after it should have shut. Am I right? Can this be cleaned? Replaced?

Thanks for your help.

Bob

Comments

  • musicrc
    musicrc Member Posts: 5
    edited October 2014
    I forgot another question...this one about insulating the pipes. I've read over and over again on this site about insulating the steam pipes in the basement. We had the asbestos insulation removed as a condition for buying this house twelve years ago and never put any insulation back on those pipes. This weekend I started wrapping them with two-inch fiberglass insulation. Should that insulation go all the way down to the boiler?
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,476
    That hissing vent has failed, you can try boiling it in white vinegar for 10-15 minutes or just replace it. Make sure you buy a good vent, Gorton, Maid O Mist, or Ventrite.

    Check to see what kind of vent you have on the steam main, in general you want to vent the mains fast and the rads slowly.

    You really don't want deep setbacks on steam, you could put a thermostatic air valve in the bedroom and dial it down so that room stays cooler than the rest of the house. I use a Honeywell RTH6450 thermostat and a 4 degree setback - that is probably too much but I like it cooler at night

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    icesailor
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    Put insulation on every pipe all the way to the boiler. It makes a difference in system performance and efficiency. The vent on that rad sounds like it's bad. It should close once steam hits it. Does it get hot and continue to hiss? If so it's dead. I have heard you can clean them sometimes, but honestly you are better off just replacing. Be cautious don't just put any vent on, you want to size the vent to the radiator. Your contractor is right about setting it up for steam. The setup for steam is in the settings and it controls the cycles per hour. I think most are set up for forced hot air from the factory and they will cycle the system until the thermostat is happy. This isn't good for steam you want nice long run times and setting the thermostat correctly is important. Most here recommend 1 cycle per hour, but some use 2. It really depends on the system and how you like it. If you search the wall for thermostats and steam you will get plenty of reading material and plenty of opinions. I suggest more reading on the subject so you can make an intelligent decision for you. Just make sure whichever one you buy has teh ability to adjust the cycles per hour. Oh and your contractor is right about setback, deep setbacks more than a couple degrees will probably cost you more money than leaving the thermostat alone. If you like it that way for your comfort that is a different story just be aware you probably won't save much and possibly cost you more to run. Oh and if your contractor sent you here...good for you! Just another homeowners opinion.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,159
    Almost any programmable thermostat with batteries should do. I happen to like the Honeywell VisionPro series, but there are others which other folks like. Whatever thermostat you get, yes it must be set up for steam. On some Honeywells, and a lot of others, this is either an explicit setting for "steam" or sometimes "steam and gravity hot water". On others it may be a "cycles per hour" or "cph" setting -- which should be set to 1.

    However.

    Steam systems do not appear to save much money on significant setbacks. A few degrees -- 3 to 5 -- doesn't seem to make much difference. More than that and the system has to run so much to make up the setback that it cancels out the savings. If you are setting back to make it cooler at night, well and good -- but don't expect to save any money.

    If you do set it back more than a few degrees, keep in mind that it will take a while to recover. Set your programmable so that it starts recovery well before -- as much as an hour before -- you want to get up and have it warm for breakfast.

    If steam were coming out of that vent, you would likely know it. Is the radiator fully hot? That it makes a noise suggests that just possibly the pressure is a bit high -- or that you could use more main venting. They are hard to clean effectively -- but very easy to replace.

    Insulation -- yes, it should go all the way down the riser(s) to the boiler. In fact, everything which is above the waterline should be insulated, and some folks go farther and insulate all the cold return piping as well.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722



    If you do set it back more than a few degrees, keep in mind that it will take a while to recover. Set your programmable so that it starts recovery well before -- as much as an hour before -- you want to get up and have it warm for breakfast.

    Jamie my Honeywell is an older programmable, but it has a learning function that once programmed it will gradually start the boiler earlier and earlier until it hits my set point and time fairly accurately. I never had a need to adjust the time I just turned this setting on and it took care of itself. I don't know if the new ones still have this feature or not, but I can't imagine they don't. If the vision pro doesn't have this I may have to read up and find one that does! I am replacing mine soon (it is having "issues") and I hate to lose any features I already have.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • musicrc
    musicrc Member Posts: 5
    How do I make sure I get the correct size vent?
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    If you like a cooler bedroom, you might consider adding a TRV to that radiator.
    KC_Jonesicesailor
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    The vent should be sized to the radiator, such that it vents at the correct rate. These questions are asked a lot on here and there is a book for sale in the store that covers this topic. It's the balancing steam and it gives ratings for all the vents on the market and describes how to calculate what you need. I highly recommend it! Only 10 bucks and it goes to charity. And don't cheap out on vents buy a good quality I am using Gorton and love them, but there are others out there. I had some cheap no name ones that came with the house...noisy and don't work very well.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15