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No end of aggravation

JackJack Posts: 785Member ✭✭✭
with the angle stops I used at my home. Now, I learned the plumbing trade beginning back in the late 60's. We always used a chrome nipple our of the wall to a 1/2" angle stop. Good enough. It always worked. I haven't worked with the tools, daily, in a long time. So, last year we remodeled the house. New Bathrooms, kitchen, laundry. I go with what I know and don't want to use the compression stops. It is all good. Over the last 6 months I have developed leaks on the stops. They didn't leak right away. They crack, over time, on the threaded portion of the stop so I only find it when the base of the cabinet is soaked. The body of the stops is so thin it is incredible. The first one I figured I overtightened. The next three I'm smokin'. The thing about these ips stops is they have to face in the correct direction, so you sometimes need that extra half turn. Some times you get it in the stop, sometimes in the nipple. I've done a boatload of these over the years and know how it is done. Since beginning to have this problem I've looked at stops in assorted hardware stores and supply houses and they are all the same. Thin, thin, thin. I understand the desire to reduce cost, but you still have to make a product that will survive and do the job for which it is designed, or so I thought. I guess I'll write the manuf.
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Comments

  • SnowmeltSnowmelt Posts: 684Member ✭✭
    edited June 2014
    Brass craft

    The only ones I use is brass craft,

    I use the iron pipe thread. That way if the Brass craft product does fail you spin it off and install a new one.
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  • JackJack Posts: 785Member ✭✭✭
    That is what I used

    I ran them to a brass nipple. The chrome nipples were pricey. Grrrr.
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  • SWEISWEI Posts: 5,057Member ✭✭✭✭
    Have you tried Dahl Brothers?

    More configurations than you can imagine, and well made.
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member ✭✭✭✭
    Stops:

    I've been using slip-on stops since I started plumbing in 1963. With a stray one with brass nipples here and there. REALLY stray.  I/we always ran copper run outs. I must say that I have NEVER, ever seen what you describe. Maybe some new MIA (Made In Asia) off brands. But through the casting? Maybe it is a newer "Lead Free" body and because of the lack of lead/zinc, it is failing in some types of water. But older one like Brasscraft? Up until a few years ago, if you had one installed that you needed the stop to work, if the stem leaked, you could just take a new one and rob the insert and stem assembly and replace it. As far as the 1/2" Nominal compression ones, many think that it is a ground joint connection and needs nothing to help it. Since 1963, I have always coated the pipe and compression sleeve with some form of lubricant. I have NEVER had a leak on ANY connection that slight twist didn't stop. Now, with the almost universal use of braided connections, a little synthetic grease goes a long way. And for the cave dwellers that still refuse to use Teflon Tape, that " I need to just get another 1/4 turn, or Geez, it isn't tight, I have to go around another turn, with Teflon tape and paste, you already over tightened it. And you won't have a leak. And on the very remote chance you do, another wrap or two of tape on what is already there, and stopping where it is even still loose, will be fine and no leak. Even 5 years later.

    Down here in the Perpendicular universe of Florida, the only run outs you will see are copper with R-14 or R-19 1/2" copper X 3/8? OD compression stops with split spring flanges. They look REALLY quality nice.

    If you're using IPS nipples and not using QUALITY pipe tape like Blue Monster, you're still working with early 1960 technology. Things have progressed.
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lesser Agrivation:

    Snow,

    Most all stop made were made by Brasscraft and re-branded to others. If it is the stem assembly that's the issue, and you carry some older ones around, take the stem assembly out and compare stems. If they are the same length and the inside threaded portion of the stem starts the same with both, they are interchangeable. Really handy if you need to change a ballcock on a toilet and it won't stop running, or a sink that you want to change a faucet. A few years back, I replaced some sink supplies from 1960 with 2008 ones. A lot easier than trying to get all the water out of a large t story house with all the floor shut-offs not to be found (NTBF). This applies to ALL the stops. Threaded ones too. Chrome or RB.
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  • JackJack Posts: 785Member ✭✭✭
    I give up...

    Another of the Brass Craft ips angle stops cracked at the brass nipple. This one was all ready replaced. In the master bath, I replaced the cracked stops with the compression model. I have several other fixtures to do. As to the failed ips units, I have to look at it as over tightening, at least on the originals. On the replacements I was very careful to not over tighten. Maybe it is the new lead free formulation coupled with the thinner body of the valve. Live and learn!
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  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2014
    Cracked Up:

    Did you use that dreaded Teflon Tape and paste on the male nipple threads or did you use some antique pipe dope compound?

    Years ago, HTP had a problem with their Super Stor indirect's leaking where a flare adapter went in to the coil. They came out with a tech bulletin for the leakers to only use a high quality Teflon paste pipe dope and they listed two. One was or was similar to Rectorseal #100% Virgin Teflon. By using that product, you could tighten the flare adapter with a pair of pliers and not have it leak. They also suggested that in testing, they found that it could be just hand tight and it wouldn't leak.  That was no new news to me. I used Teflon Tape and some form of Teflon tape for over 40 years. I tighten up small fittings with a pair of 6" or 10" Arc Joint pliers and never have a leak. A lot of people WAY OVER-TIGHTEN small fittings. 1/2" black malleable fittings are a good example. I've seen installers crank a fitting around for another turn with 18" pipe wrenches. Because it didn't seem tight enough when they were getting to the spot. Then, while going around again, it got harder and harder, but 3/4's of the way there, the turning suddenly gets easier. You just destroyed the fitting by stretching it. You can do the same with brass fittings except that they just continue to stretch. Except that the new no-lead or tin fittings are brittle and instead of stretching, they crack later because the fitting is left under tremendous tension.

    Before you condemn Brass craft out of hand, try properly applied quality tape. Even if it seems loose as you get to the spot, it won't leak. And that doesn't mean using 3/4" wide tape on 1/2" fittings with a pile hanging over the end of the threads and another pile hanging past the ends of the threads. No more than 3 wraps.

    If it's a transitional fitting, like going from 1/2" or 3/8" IPS to 3/8" OD compression stops, if it cracked, you had it too tight. If it leaked, you could have gone around another turn. Its not like it is a tee in the middle of a large section of screw pipe.
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