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Radiator air vent preference?

JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 1,474Member ✭✭✭
I tend to use Gorton for the variety, ease of selection, and quality, but the Hoffman rep has me rethinking my choices.



I don't like Vari-Valves, so don't even suggest it.



Discuss.
· ·

Comments

  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 3,465Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    Hoffman

    For normal right angle 1/8" radiator vents Hoffman only has 2 options correct?  The ultra slow #40 and the expensive #1 with its joke of an adjustment cap.  Not to mention they click and clack which may upset customers. 



    You may recall I had problems with my 1As getting clogged with a droplet of water randomly which I'd have to blow out with a can of air with a straw to get the radiator to heat again.  Happened randomly to all of my radiators and while it wasn't often it was still a nuisance. 



    The water droplet clogging problem went away when I switched to Gorton.  The clogging issue may very well not happen on systems running a little higher pressure than me, but the adjustment cap on the 1A is still a joke.



    To me, it's a no-brainer, Gorton's are near silent, offer more venting speeds and don't seem to randomly clog.  They also don't have an obvious design defect that no one has bothered to change like the 1A cap.



    Vari-valves seem to make ok main vents but like you I don't think they belong on radiators.



    That is my non-professional opinion.
    Weil-McLain EG-40 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment Typical operating pressure 0.5 - 1.0 inch wc.

    Steam system pictures updated 1/25/15.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#

    Don't push the envelope, eliminate it.
    · ·
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 523Member ✭✭
    Gorton

    I have been installing only Gortons for years. No problems at all. Only thing that I would not do is to follow the Gorton venting guide. It is amateurish. Get the venting guide available in the shop section on this site. Venting is like the human respiratory system. It is critical to the health of any steam heating system.
    · ·
  • Dave in QCADave in QCA Posts: 1,449Member ✭✭✭
    My Favorite is...

    I prefer the Hoffman #40 because they are nice and slow and because of that, tend to help a system heat up smoothly with balanced steam distribution.



    The varivalves are just way too fast and don't have any provision for dealing with condensation in the valve body. As Chris said, the Hoffman 1A adjustment mechanism is so poorly designed it is difficult to get any kind of adjustment set correctly, and on many system, they perform the best if their set as close as possible to the rating of a #40.



    I have observed that most systems, if piped properly in the first place, the radiators will heat up proportionately with #40 vents. That is, both small and large radiators will heat the same percentage on a partial steam cycle, even though they are using the same sized vent.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
    · ·
  • FredFred Posts: 2,001Member ✭✭✭
    Hoffman 1A

    I have used the Hoffman 1A for over 20 years without any problems. I guess it is a matter of preference and personal experience. Certainly you aren't going to go wrong with the Gortons but I think they close (or partially close) a little quicker on temp than the Hoffmans.
    · ·
  • JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 1,474Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    I'm told the Gortons use a bi-metal...

    ...as opposed to the Hoffmans which also float(?) to seal.

    I'm not sure I got that right, but that's the kind of answer I'm looking for: the mechanics of each valve.

    I would think that will help determine which manufacturer's product may be better suited for one set of conditions over another.
    · ·
  • Dave in QCADave in QCA Posts: 1,449Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    Diagrams

    Here is a diagram of the Hoffman #40

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/images/posts/12893/thumb_Bullet%20Style%20Radiator%20Vent.jpg



    Here is a view of the insides of the Gorton



    http://www.heatinghelp.com/images/posts/1008/thumb_Inside%20a%20Gorton%20Vent.jpg



    Note: They both have a float. The Hoffman closes suddenly when steam is present in the vent. The Gorton closes more slowly but at much cooler temperatures, generally as stem is getting close the vent, the last air coming out of the radiator is probably warm enough to close the vent.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
    · ·
  • bobbob Posts: 528Member ✭✭✭
    vents

    John , google "Jerry Gill Plumbing" click on videos and then heating . Jerry has lots of first rate info on his site .
    bob
    · ·
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 3,465Member ✭✭✭
    Gerry Gill's videos

    Here is a link to Gerry's videos.

    http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/p/619/heating-video's



    I cut open a Hoffman 1A a while back. The float is filled with a liquid that expands at a certain temperature causing the accordion like bottom to pop out which drives the needle into the seat.



    Gorton's as you said use a bimetal strip to drive the float and needle assembly up into the seat.
    Weil-McLain EG-40 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment Typical operating pressure 0.5 - 1.0 inch wc.

    Steam system pictures updated 1/25/15.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#

    Don't push the envelope, eliminate it.
    · ·
  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,216Member ✭✭✭
    Vent Rite 1

    is the vent I use 80% of the time. They are the only adjustable that tested well in the Balancing Steam vent speed chart. If you can not get them near you then contact me and I will help you get them.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    · ·
  • JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 1,474Member ✭✭✭
    Outstanding.

    Thank you all very much.



    I'll check this stuff out today. I don't know how those videos have gotten past me this long.
    · ·
  • Another vote for Vent Rite's

    The adjustable version adjusts in the slow range, allowing you to get really find balance in a system.  Remember, vent mains quickly and radiators slowly.  Gortons vents are well made, but the venting sizes are too large. It would be much better if they offered fived sizes with the largest at 6, not D.   For apartments I recommend the Maid of Mist.....they are like the Gortons except that the orifice can be changed.  Makes it much easier to tweak the system without having to buy and swap all sorts of vents.  After you get them balanced, a little locktite on the orifice and that will keep folks from messing with the orifices.  You can swap in the equivalent Gorton later in you want a better vent.
    The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

    Chicago's Steam Heating Expert





    Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
    · ·
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 3,465Member ✭✭✭
    Vent sizes

    This is something I read from time to time and I don't understand it.



    My system typically runs at less than an ounce and I have perfectly even heat using even Gorton Cs on two radiators. In fact, I need those size vents because of how low the pressure is.
    jpg
    jpg
    ventsGortons.jpg
    0B
    Weil-McLain EG-40 connected to 392sqft of radiation via two 2" risers into a 3" drop header and 2" equalizer. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment Typical operating pressure 0.5 - 1.0 inch wc.

    Steam system pictures updated 1/25/15.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/thetube0a3/Boiler?authkey=Gv1sRgCImUxIqv9436MQ#

    Don't push the envelope, eliminate it.
    · ·
  • Mad DogMad Dog Posts: 2,908Member ✭✭✭
    Johnny.............................

    Hoffmans are excellent and I have used them often....especially "Silver Bullet". Gorton and Hoffman...can't go wrong. No one can touch the Gorton #2 though. I asked them to make a "Gorton # 3", so as to avoid having to make Batteries of #2s. The #3 would be short and squat, but have the ventting capacity of 4 #2s. Still WAITING!!!!!! ha ha Mad Dog
    · ·
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