To get email notification when someone adds to a thread you're following, click on the star in the thread's header and it will turn yellow; click again to turn it off. To edit your profile, click on the gear.
The Wall has a powerful search engine that will go all the way back to 2002. Use "quotation marks" around multiple-word searches. RIGHT-CLICK on the results and choose Open Link In New Window so you'll be able to get back to your results. Happy searching!
In fairness to all, we don't discuss pricing on the Wall. Thanks for your cooperation.

Ultra fin Radiant heating

I m building a 6000 sq ft home in NY. It was suggested that i use Ultra Fin System as a primary heating

The manufacturer provided a heat loss estimate, and suggest 3700 ft of 3/4 PEX with 2100 pairs of plate

plates

floors will be tile and wood

I m concerned with making sure that this system will be able to heat the house properly.

Should I use any additional wall radiators to be supplemented to the radiant?

Anyone with Ultra Fin Experience in the NYC area?

Should I use a condensing or a modulating boiler??

Thanks
· ·

Comments

  • GordyGordy Posts: 3,549Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    At what point

    Are you in the building Phase?



    There are other RFH methods besides Ultrafin that have higher outputs at lower water temps, and more responsive. you need to be cautious of floor temps with your wood floors. Are they solid, or Engineered wood floors?



    And last question is WHY are you concerned?
    Post edited by Gordy on
    · ·
  • mikegeemikegee Posts: 8Member
    Ultra fin Radiant heating

    the house is framed and roof  and windows installed.

    All joist and walls are open

    Can you suggest another RF system, and possibly someone in my area that can install it/

    Thanks
    · ·
  • mikegeemikegee Posts: 8Member
    Ultra fin Radiant heating

    I m concerned because i was unable to speak to anyone that has a similar system installe din my area, and no professional that has installed same 
    · ·
  • hot rodhot rod Posts: 3,592Member ✭✭✭
    Ultra Fin

    I found it was easier to pull a pex loop into every joist bay, instead of threading a single tube thru every joist.



    I installed the Ultra Fin on only one run per joist bay. It did take more tube but I felt better with fin every joist bay, 16" on center. I also added some ThermoFin under the large glass wall in the living room. Same loop, I just jumped the tube up into the transfer plates on the high load area.



    I'm in a milder climate in Missouri and I connected it to a Lochinvar Knight running 140F supply.



    It real tough to make tubing or heat emitter additions after the sheet rock is up. I'd error with additional tube and UF and run lower temperature supply, allowing for some wiggle room on below design conditions.
    · ·
  • ZmanZman Posts: 2,193Member ✭✭✭
    Joist trak

    The best type of product for underfloor heating in an aluminum plate like Uponer Joist trak. You can run these at much lower temps than Ultra Fin. Low temps is the key to maximizing the efficiency of condensing boilers.

    I would strongly suggest finding a designer who can perform a heat loss calculation of your project and then properly design your system. You will be spending a great deal of money on this system, I just a few hours a good designer could be sure your system runs perfectly.

    Carl
    · ·
  • mikegeemikegee Posts: 8Member
    Ultra fin Radiant heating

    carl

    can you recommend a good designer.I m very concerned about getting this done the right way.

    Have you had any experience with the Ultra Fin  System or heard about it??

    I do have the time to get this done right . Just completed the framing only

    Thanks

    Mike
    · ·
  • RichRich Posts: 921Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Mike

    Where in NY are you ?   You could have this designed by someone and then find a competent installer in your area .  You said The fine people at Ultra Fin designed a system for you . May I ask if they performed a room by room heat loss of the property ? If they did not they have no idea what to design unless you sent them ALL the INFORMATION REQUIRED to perform the heat loss calculations .
    Post edited by Rich on
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC 732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey , Eastern Pa .
    Consultation , Design & Installation
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    · ·
  • mikegeemikegee Posts: 8Member
    Ultra fin Radiant heating

    hi Rich

    I m building in Nassau County New York. about 5 miles east of JFK.

    Ultra fin did a room by room heat loss calculation s from my floor plans and elevations

    They did include the loss for all windows, glass and openings.

    I do have a detailed Ultra Calc Room Report.

    can you recommend someone to design the system properly, check their calculations or suggest a better way of doing this.

    This js a house I plan to use myself, and it has to be doen right

    Thanks
    · ·
  • ZmanZman Posts: 2,193Member ✭✭✭
    Ultra fin

    Mike,

    I have not and would not do a ultra fin system. The problem is you are heating the air space rather than the surface. I am sure they work just fine if you run the water hot enough. The whole point of radiant is efficiency and comfort.

    Many supply houses will help with designs or make a recommendation.

    You could also check with these guys http://www.radiantprofessionalsalliance.org/Pages/default.aspx

    As Rich said, if they are not doing a heat loss, they are just guessing.

    Carl
    · ·
  • mikegeemikegee Posts: 8Member
    Ultra fin Radiant heating

    Carl

    Ultra Fin did a heat loss calculations from my floor plans. The calculations includes the floor covering in each room as well as windows and doors.

     and Provided a Room by Room detail report

    I m just concerned since I was not able to speak to any one in the Northast that actually  did install the  system or and end user that has the system

    Can you recommend a designer or someone that can install a radiant heating system

    thanks
    · ·
  • RichRich Posts: 921Member ✭✭✭
    Mike

    I contacted you privately . If you wish please contact me with the information I sent you by phone or email .  I am in Jersey and can possibly assist you
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC 732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey , Eastern Pa .
    Consultation , Design & Installation
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    · ·
  • RichRich Posts: 921Member ✭✭✭
    Sensibility

    After much research on your part I would guess you decided to go with radiant heating for comfort and efficiency . Correct me if I am mistaken .  You did some research on the internet and found Ultra Fin and the marketing and the promise of a more economical install and first cost caught your attention . Welcome to the wortd of marketing or as I like to call it , SPIN.. Our industry is full of it , everyone on The Wall can verify this .  Think about this , water can and does carry 3,470 x more heat than an equivalent unit of air . You will be depending on heating a huge mass of air that does not hold heat well before you will feel a damn thing . To put it in size terms , your home is 6000 sq feet , all radiant , 4 inch air space acting as your heating medium , all that air must be heated before any meaningful heat transfer can take place . You are in essence heating an 82.5 sq ft room that does not exist all the time and this room must satisfy before any of the real rooms get any heat that you will perceive . Sound efficient to you ?   That air space will also cool very rapidly after the thermostat satisfies and it will start all over again . It will require water temps that are not conducive to condensing equipment so you will lose that efficiency factor also .  It is just all around not a good idea in my opinion and I am not alone
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC 732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey , Eastern Pa .
    Consultation , Design & Installation
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    · ·
  • hot rodhot rod Posts: 3,592Member ✭✭✭
    UltraFin

    has been around since the early 1990's. In the proper application it works well, and it does not always require 180F operating temperatures. I't all about the loads and appropriate design.



    It's a step or two above the "dangled tube" suspended bare tube method that Wirsbo promoted, and another DIY company up New England way. Both are still in business and selling millions of feet of tube :)



    Actually when you view a UltraFin installation through the lens of an infrared camera it has an amazingly consistent floor temperature, no striping like some plate, or staple up rubber tube installations.
    · ·
  • TombigTombig Posts: 15Member
    Ultra Fin

    Tom from Chicago chiming in to a year old post here. Hey there old timers Gordy and Hot Rod. I have quite a few Ultra Fin jobs under my belt since the 90's. GC's and architects I work with here prefer this method because it requires no structural modifications (overpour) and easily installs around the other trades.



    Some of these jobs we removed standing iron radiators, installed tubing and Ultra Fin emitters and kept the high temperature cast iron boiler. Others we installed modulating, condensing boilers with high temperature distribution, effectively negating their efficiency. Proper engineering, installation, and insulation left a bunch of happy customers.



    All of my "system efficiency" arguments regarding lower boiler temps fell on deaf ears as these jobs were brought to construction. If you are building new with a new boiler, then have your architect plan for the weight and floor height of an over pour with embedded tubing, regardless of floor covering. Depending upon where you live you might be able to heat your home with 85-95* boiler water which would maximize the boiler efficiency.



    Just saying....
    · ·
  • J.R. MaddenJ.R. Madden Posts: 10Member
    I installed only one (1) Ultra Fin job. It was done in one of my boys new home. The "conventional" boiler heats a radiant floor holding tank. Tank temperature is controlled by outdoor temp. The system keeps the 2 story 3500 sq.ft. home comfortable at -25°F. There are no "streaks" of heat like many RF delivery systems.The key to a properly installed system Ultra Fin, or other, is the insulating and air sealing of the band joist, as well as adequate and proper insulating below the fins/plates or tubing. If the information you sent to Ultra Fin was accurate then the heat loss calculations will be correct. At outdoor temperatures below 10°F the system we installed needs water temperatures above the dew point of flue gasses so a conventional "non condensing" boiler should be used. We chose to use a thermal storage tank so that when heat load is small we can warm the floors with low temperature water and not condense flue gasses in the conventional oil fired boiler.
    JRM
    · ·
  • Paul PolletsPaul Pollets Posts: 2,777Member ✭✭✭
    I'd consider other methods before using UltraFin. Viega Climate Panels, Uponor QuickTrak, or a suspended system using heavy duty transfer plates will outperform Ultrafin. You'll (or the contractor) need to do a heat loss calc using specific radiant software to correctly determine required water temps and flow rates. The software tells if the chosen radiant application can satisfy the heat requirements of each room.
    Try and find a quality contractor in your area that has expertise.
    · ·
Sign In or Register to comment.

Welcome

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!