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Noisy Carlin EZ gas conversion burners

Tim McElwainTim McElwain Posts: 3,208Member ✭✭✭
Have any of you had complaints? I am getting 2 or 3 calls a week.

Also complaints on the 120 volt gas valve making a noise when closing.

What have you found?
· ·

Comments

  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 1,664Member ✭✭✭
    Now i have ...

    only done 2, both is Smith 8 series boilers....No complaints.  One customer actually was happy it was quieter than the EZ oil that came out.
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    Roar and initial valve noise

    I had a Smith G8-3 and EZ Gas installed in October. When they started it up and were running the combustion test the thing was roaring pretty good, they had to increase the air to 24% to quiet it down some. It's still roaring but not as bad if it was optimally tuned so it's not as efficient as it could be. The 02 is 4.3%, CO2 9.4% and the stack is 433F with an ambient of 50F.



    The gas valve was noisy as well, sounded like someone was rapping on the pipe with a bat. A lot of noise was being transmitted through the 1" gas pipe to the floor joists so I wrapped the pipe with silicone rubber sheet at the clamp points and that cut some of the clunk. Over the last few months the noise has gotten less and less, maybe the valve is wearing in??



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • JeffMJeffM Posts: 124Member
    edited March 2013
    noisier

    The one I had put in for me in October is noticeably noisier than the Carlin EZ oil burner that it replaced, but I don't have anything else to compare it to. No valve noise, just roaring.
    Post edited by JeffM on
    · ·
  • heatpro02920heatpro02920 Posts: 991Member
    TIm

    are they complaining about the roar, or is there something else, I had one a while back that complained about a whistle, went and checked it and found nothing, heard nothing never heard back. The carlins have always been a little loud, the waynes are noticeably more quite...



    I haven't heard the 120v gas valve or noticed a noise... Ill ask my tech, he swapped out a carlin ez1 for an ez gas about 3 weeks ago...
    · ·
  • Jim HankinsonJim Hankinson Posts: 68Member ✭✭
    EZ gas

    Tim, we've sold a lot of EZ gas conversion burners and quite a few systems with it installed. Only a couple of noise complaints to my knowledge that I believe have been corrected. One whistle that was an undersized flex gas supply that should not have been used.
    · ·
  • HenryHenry Posts: 501Member ✭✭
    Burners

    We try to stay away from Carlin burners as we have had some issues with them. We prefer Fuelmaster burners. Last year, we got stuck using two Carlin burners on Smith 8 Series, one on gas and one opn oil. The gas one was very noisy. It required the replacement of the retention head of another design which Smith provided. That solved the noise issue.
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  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 2,394Member ✭✭✭
    Hmmm

    Gotta wonder if that's why Smith stopped offering it as a package (G-8)?
    · ·
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 2,394Member ✭✭✭
    Mine

    I have the ez-gas on my 8 series 5 section. She rumbles a little more than it did with the ez-1, no gas valve noise.
    · ·
  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,197Member ✭✭✭
    yes to noise complaints

    the frequency is different due to the light burner. The oil has lots of cast iron parts to muffle the noise is what I figure. Also tuning by way of a combustion analyzer is critical to keep the noise down. No gas valve noise complaints though. The fresh air intake cover helps with noise complaints if they exist after tuning.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    Retention head?

    The rumble on my EZ gas is almost all low frequency so the cover really has no impact on the noise level. The overhead gas line is 1" and the feed down to the boiler is 3/4" steel pipe, it clocks out to about 109,000 BTU's.



    The installers had to increase the air to quiet the burner down to a livable level but it's still louder than the old AFG burner was on the V75 oil fired system.



    I'll have to contact Carlin to see if a different retention head would help control the noise on my G8-3 boiler. Is there a model number I should ask about?



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 9,109Member ✭✭✭
    Which air tube/diffuser assembly

    did they use- A, B or 9-slot?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    · ·
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 9,109Member ✭✭✭
    Generally

    the EZ-Gas sounds like a typical flame-retention oil burner. We had one job where the combination of an EZ-Gas in a Slant/Fin Intrepid TR-40 and that particular chimney produced a noticeable harmonic rumble, but we got that down to a manageable level with help from our local Carlin rep, Bruce Graham.



    One of the nice things about the Midco radial-flame low-NOx burner is that it doesn't produce any rumble at all. Still waiting for them to come up with a proper steam control system for it.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    B diffuser

    The EZ-Gas model was specifically for the Smith G8 (mine is the G8-3) and it's marked as having the B diffuser plate. i did not see the burner before it was in the boiler, the manifold pressure was checked and it's 3.5" with the boiler running (the input was 11" in October).



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 2,394Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2013
    Steamhead

    Could using the wrong diffuser cause excessive rumble? I can't find anything about the 9S diffuser in any of the manuals. They list 'A", "B", or "C". My installer said he was not going to fire the boiler as high as recommended,"it wasn't necessary". He was going to fire it about 150000btus. He didn't mark the orifice size. Below 175 requires a change from "A" to "B" diffuser, and my airtube is marked 9S....
    Post edited by Paul48 on
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  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Posts: 3,208Member ✭✭✭
    Talked to an installer

    here locally (RI) who has installed over 250 Carlin EZ Gas burners without any noise complaints.



    I have a feeling these noisy burners are not installed correctly and not set up properly.
    · ·
  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,197Member ✭✭✭
    Noise is realitive

    I am positive the units I have installed are correctly tuned and mounted. Anyone who says no noise complaints after hundreds of installs to me is like the wholesaler who says "No one else has had an issue with that part, boiler, or fixture". I like the Carlin. I feel it is a good burner. I also know some people are bothered by the noise and other burners are out of tune. You need to tread lightly as some of the noise complaints will be valid and some will not be. If guys are just setting them by the manual without testing the combustion They are causing issues and making a bad name for a good burner. I had one in New Bedford That a guy with 30 years installing for the the gas company installed and it was out of tune and the orifice was 3 yes 3 drill sizes too small. I was called in because the house would not heat and they said it was the steam piping.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    · ·
  • JackJack Posts: 766Member ✭✭✭
    Years ago I was

    With Pete Axeman in his lab and he was showing me the Carlin gas burner. It was very loud. He said, "watch this", and put on a 1'section of I think it was 4" pipe on the inlet and the burner quieted right down. Really an amazing difference. Maybe there is something here for the EZ as well
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    A lot better

    My Smith G8-3 and Carlin was installed last year and it worked well last winter but had to be detuned to get the low frequency noise level down to bearable levels.



    After going back and forth with Jstar I found I could fire the boiler lower and in conversations with Carlin tech support they thought a lower rate of firing would quiet the beast down.



    This boiler is feeding 210 EDR and the Smith was being fired at about 110,000 BTU with the stock 0.219" orifice in it. The mains are all insulated with !' pipe insulation. I ordered a new Orifice and drilled it out to 0.187" and that is now firing at 76,700 BTU according to my clocking of the gas meter.



    Here are the numbers the guy got. The efficiency has gone from 80.5% (detuned to quiet it down) up to 84% and the noise level is about half what it was with the old setup. O2 is 3.2% and CO2 is 10% with a stack of 310F.



    This should reduce the short cycling I was experiencing by a lot. Maybe downfiring is the key to solving some of the noise complaints?



    My thanks to JSTAR for his input.



    Bob
    Post edited by BobC on
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • JackJack Posts: 766Member ✭✭✭
    Not sure if this still works

    About 20 yrs ago I was with Pete Axeman at his plant and we were looking at one of his boilers with a Carlin gas burner on it. Very noisy! Pete said, "Watch this". He put a 1' section of 4" gal vie pipe on the intake and I couldn't believe how it quieted down. We then tried it with a 4" 90 and the effect was the same.
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    I tried that

    with a rolled up peice of cardboard (nothing else on hand) and it diminished the noise a little bit but not enough to make a real difference in my case. When I cut the firing rate by about 30% the rumbling all but disappeared. This only works if your EZ-Gas powered boilers firing rate is high enough to justify the cut. I replaced a 7/32" orifice (110,000 BTU) with a 3/16" orifice (77,000 BTU) so the intermediate stop would have been a 13/64" and that would have put ma at about 94,000 BTU on my boiler.



    Let me add that you should make sure your installer uses the 8" orifice pipe if you have the acoustic cover installed. If he uses the usual 4" the dis-assembly becomes A LOT more time consuming and time = money - ask me how i know! Carlin should add a note in their manual so installers don't make this mistake.



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • JStarJStar Posts: 2,400Member ✭✭✭
    Noise

    They definitely have a low frequency rumble. Same as an oil burner, or even a little more pronounced in some boilers. The larger boilers, 4 sections and up, seem to have less of a rumble.



    Today we experimented a little to see what affects the noise. Here are some items that had no effect:



    Tube insertion depth

    Gas pressure

    Length of first flue pipe off back of boiler

    Orientation of draft control; horizontal, vertical, closer, or further from boiler



    The rumble is certainly coming from the flame itself. We'll be ordering some 9-slot tubes and going back to install one on this job for further testing.
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357
    j.star@thatcherhvac.com
    http://thatcherhvac.com
    http://facebook.com/thatcherhvac

    Guaranteed performance. Guaranteed energy savings.
    Serving all of NJ, NYC, Southern NY State, and eastern PA.
    Consultation anywhere.
    · ·
  • BobCBobC Posts: 2,673Member ✭✭✭
    Length of firebox?

    It seams the difference between the 3 section and the 4 section boiler is probably 30% more mass and 30% longer firebox. It would be interesting to somehow shorten the flame and see if that affects the rumbling.



    Have you noticed any correlation between the height of the chimney and the rumble?



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    · ·
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 1,104Member ✭✭✭
    AWSOME!

    And we wonder why the foreign competition is selling so much equipment over here?



    Probably inadequate testing as usual. I know in a lab you cant duplicate all field problems but test, test, test!!!!!!!



    Most of us would probably prefer American equipment if it is good equipment
    · ·
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