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Purpose of this pipe?

Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
Here's one I've never seen. This is a riser in a 1930-era vacuum steam system. The contractor replaced it because of leaks and this is how the pipe looks in cross-section. I need to tap into the Big Brain for this one. Thanks.
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Comments

  • Dave in QCADave in QCA Posts: 1,455Member ✭✭✭
    Webster ??

    Dan, is this that Webster pipe in a pipe riser?
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
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  • gerry gillgerry gill Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭
    Can he determine whats

    at the base of the riser fitting? the origin point, i mean.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com

    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    ·
  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    I'll ask.

    Thanks. 
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  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    Don't know.

    I'm not seeing it in their books. Thanks. 
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  • gerry gillgerry gill Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭
    Attached is the patent for what Dave is talking about i believe.

    It was much later than the published warren webster 1922 book..it would or should have that distinctive base..again that doesnt mean this is what you have there..but maybe it is..and when it comes to patents the company only has to hold to the 'spirit' of the patent, thus the design can sometimes change quite radically from what was submitted as long as it accomplishes the same principle etc..again, this may or may not be what you have there, but i think it is what Dave was talking about and is why i was wondering what the base looked like.
    pdf
    pdf
    US2052719 warren webster.pdf
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    gwgillplumbingandheating.com

    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

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  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    Thanks, Gerry.

    I've seen that and it's wonderful. Amazing that they managed to go out of business, isn't it?



    Waiting to hear from the contractor about what's at the base of the riser. Stay tuned!
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  • cn30cn30 Posts: 34Member
    Condensate return?

    Well, since the riser will only have steam and water in it, and steam needs space, I would guess that thing is for condensate return to keep most of it out of the steam. If so, it's likely on the side of the pipe in the direction the pipe turns horizontal at the top, say into a radiator valve or horizontal run. Just a guess.
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  • Hap_HazzardHap_Hazzard Posts: 1,257Member ✭✭
    That's what I was thinking

    But the only advantage to that would be that you could get higher steam velocity without affecting condensate return, but they could have just used a bigger pipe. I can't see an advantage that would justify the expense of producing a specialized pipe like that.



    Dan, did you say what the diameter of this pipe was?
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S



    3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
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  • Jean-David BeyerJean-David Beyer Posts: 2,472Member ✭✭✭
    Purpose of this pipe?

    Long ago (1940s or 1950s?) there was a company that advertized copper tubing. Instead of being extruded as most (all?) of it is now days, it was made of sheet wrapped around in about 3 layers and the whole thing welded. I seem to recall it was called Bundy Copperweld, but Google has not helped me. Anyone remember that stuff?



    Now maybe that tubing was not meant to be like that, but it had a manufacturing defect that caused it to bulge inside like that.
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  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    Contractor answers:

    THE TAKE OFF FROM THE MAIN IS A STANDARD STEAM FITTING.   THIS RISER, AND LEAK, WAS ON THE THIRD FLOOR,

    STANDARD STANDARD TEE WITH A 1" TAKE OFF TO PICK UP SOME RADIATION.   THE RISER CONTINUES ON UP TO OTHER FLOORS.





    COULD IT BE THIN WALL PIPE ,ONE INSIDE ANOTHER, THAT JUST BULGED FROM DIFFERENT EXPANSION RATES???



    DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT BECAUSE THE "BULGE"  IS UNIFORM THROUGH THE PIPE.   I'M REALLY FISHING ON THIS ONE
    Site Administrator

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  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,244Member ✭✭✭
    As I look at the photo

    I think defective pipe too. If I were to come across this I would have assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that it was just poorly made. The odd shape inside would have negatively effected the steam flow. That may be why it is leaking.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    Here's a link to Bundyweld

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/152/Older-Radiant-Heating-Systems/1113/Bundyweld-Tubing



    The steam pipe does look to be too uniform to be a bulge, though, doesn't it?
    Site Administrator

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  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,244Member ✭✭✭
    Is it butt welded

    pipe? If the pipe is old enough and but welded it could be the sheet the pipe was folded from had a streak of slag in it and over the years it worked into a bulged as the inside would be hotter then the outside layer. Did he find any mrkings on the pipe like manufacturers name or a colored stripe?
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    ·
  • Dan HolohanDan Holohan Posts: 11,944Moderator mod
    Diameter

    is 1-1/2"
    Site Administrator

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  • JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 1,489Member ✭✭✭
    Here's a guess:

    If that inner, isolated channel were to run the length of a vertical riser, and were open at the top and closed at the bottom, one could tap into the near-bottom and add a vent, thereby venting the top of the riser with a vent on the steam supply in the cellar. I guess it could also tie in to a vacuum pump for that matter.



    I could be way off, of course, from what it's actually been doing.
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  • Charlie from wmassCharlie from wmass Posts: 3,244Member ✭✭✭
    air is heavier then steam

    also condensate travels on the wall of the pipe and the steam up the middle due to capillary attraction with the wall shape it would interrupt that normal flow. I would love to see the idea behind the pipe if it is not just a mistake. I looked through my old supply books and I have found nothing, I asked Da and he says it is a messed up pipe. I am really looking forward to the answer!
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Posts: 5,594Member ✭✭✭
    Separate channel

    Could it be a conduit for a pumped vacuum?--NBC
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  • JStarJStar Posts: 2,613Member ✭✭✭
    Pipe

    Is there any marking on the outside? If not, how could it accurately be used for any type of inner channel?
    - Joe Starosielec
    732-494-4357 ext. 2
    jstar.HVAC@gmail.com
    ·
This discussion has been closed.

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