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Help - Oil to NG Conversion

NatickDanNatickDan Posts: 14Member
We are converting from an Ultimate oil boiler to natural gas and I'm getting conflicting information from professionals and I really could use some help.



Contractor A is proposing a Burnham Aline150 because of its high efficiency, relability and the eligible $1500 rebate.



Contractor B is proposing a Burhham ES-25 cast iron system because he states it is less expensive, more reliable, easier to repair and requires much less costly annual cleaning. His last comment was that I would be nuts to install the new Alpine system. How much weight, if any, should I give this contractor's comments?



Both contractors are proposing a SuperStor Ultra Hot Water System.



Any opinions or advice would be appreciated. This is going to be a an expensive conversion and I want to make certain I'm making the right choice. Thank you!
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Comments

  • ChrisChris Posts: 2,869Member
    Which One

    Provided you a heat loss? Other than the boiler what else is different in the install? Maintenance is a scare tactic in my opinion. Did contractor. "B" offer the outdoor reset card for the ES2?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    · ·
  • jonny88jonny88 Posts: 591Member ✭✭✭
    outdoor reset

    Chris makes a good point.ES2 with a outdoor reset is a very nice product but make sure you get chimney relined.I like the Alliance indirect which I think qualifies you for another rebate.you would not be nuts to go with the Alpine as long as the installation is done correctly.Just my two cents,good luck.
    · ·
  • NatickDanNatickDan Posts: 14Member
    Which One

    Thanks for the response....Neither company provided me with a heat loss. They took the sq footage of the house (2160 sf ) and measured the baseboard radiators. Should I be asking them how they sized the system?



    Contractor B did not include a "reset card" in his quote. He did include as a $750 option for a Burnham IQ Outdoor Weather Sensing Control. With the high efficiency Alpine system I can vent outside via PVC, rather than my chimney. My existing liner has a large crack and if I vent thru it, I will have to replace the liner.
    · ·
  • NatickDanNatickDan Posts: 14Member
    Outdoor Reset

    Thanks for your response. My challenge is when I factor in the $1500 rebate for the Alpine, a 7 year, zero percent loan along with the $2K I'll save from not having to install a SS liner, the Alpine seems to be the right choice. However, when I was told about how difficult and expensive they are to service, I became concerned. I guess this is what happens when you don't understand what you are buying and you get conflicting information from the contractors.
    · ·
  • jonny88jonny88 Posts: 591Member ✭✭✭
    ES2 has rebates to

    I know in ny the gas company offers about $500 and an additional$450 or so in ee rebates on top of an aditional $250 for alliance.As i said before nothing wrong with the Alpine as lond as it is installed correctly and installer knows how to service it and calibrate it.by the way 2k for a chimney liner.i know there is a policy here not to discuss prices but i would ? that price.
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  • ChrisChris Posts: 2,869Member
    edited November 2012
    Find Another

    Contractor because neither of these guys know anything about hydronics in my opinion. Your Alpine contractor didn't even make you aware that the Alpine carries a 5yr parts and labor warranty out of the box. Neither did a heat loss and in my world they are both out.
    Post edited by Chris on
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    · ·
  • jonny88jonny88 Posts: 591Member ✭✭✭
    final answer......

    chris sums it up.anyway dont get blinded by rebates you are going to have this system for the next 15yrs or how long i dont know.the rebate is a small thing to look at here.

    wise words from chris"the bitter taste........................................
    · ·
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 9,057Member ✭✭✭
    Ultimate boilers

    were available with power gas burners instead of oil burners- not sure whose gas burners they used, but a Carlin or Riello gas burner might be the best option here.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    · ·
  • gennadygennady Posts: 522Member ✭✭
    heatloss

    Both contractors are not good. without heat loss calculations how do they know what size boiler do you need?  But on another hand, if i would do heat loss on every quote  i would be doing just that day and night. What i do is explain to seeker of quotation, that i will price for typical size boiler for  his type and size of house. Then , if he will sign the contract i will do all necessary measurements and calculations, and will pick up proper boiler size. I promise not to change the proposal amount. If i go up or down one boiler size it is not a big of a deal, monetary it is a small change .
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
    · ·
  • gennadygennady Posts: 522Member ✭✭
    boiler sizing

    Also, heat losses on one family house of average size and construction are smaller than smallest high efficiency boiler ( except cadets)

     somewhere in 50-60k net, so 80k boiler will handle it with ease. and this size is smaller boiler made by all major manufacturers.
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
    · ·
  • gennadygennady Posts: 522Member ✭✭
    warranty

    Burnham provides 5 year warranty only if boiler was installed by Burnham approved contractor. 
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
    · ·
  • NatickDanNatickDan Posts: 14Member
    Thank You

    A sincere thanks to all of you for your comments and advice. I have a Burnam Alpine approved contractor providing me a quote this week. Given the other contractors did not include the manufacturer 5 year parts and labor warranty, my guess is they are not "approved" contractors.



    Once I make a decision, I'll provide an update.
    · ·
  • NatickDanNatickDan Posts: 14Member
    Carlin or Riello Conversion

    A HVAC friend, not a licensed plumber, also suggested just replacing the oil fired furnace with a gas fired one. I know I would lose some efficiency, but doing so would save me thousands as I could use the existing boiler and water heater. My challenge is that I can not find anyone who will install either the Carlin or Riello furnace. If you know of anyone in MA that can do this conversion, please let me know.
    · ·
  • ChrisChris Posts: 2,869Member
    You Don't

    Need to be anything for the warranty. All Alpines have it out of the box provided

    it is installed by a licensed contractor.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
    · ·
  • gennadygennady Posts: 522Member ✭✭
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
    · ·
  • gennadygennady Posts: 522Member ✭✭
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
    · ·
  • ZmanZman Posts: 2,222Member ✭✭✭
    Alpine

    Why are you only considering these models. The alpine uses a relatively high maintenance heat exchanger design. Firetube HX like Triangle tube and Lochinvar have an excellent track record.
    · ·
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