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Hot water baseboard off bottom steam heat boiler

TonyTony Posts: 15Member
Hi all,



I'm sure this has been asked a million times, I have a Burhman steam boiler that I would like to add some hot water baseboards in the basement level. I believe it can be done. I have the baseboards installed, purchased a thermostat and a circulating pump, and a taco relay.



My questions is there schematic somewhere in cyber space I can see the piping hook up to the boiler? I already know how to hook up the relay, pump and TT.



Thanks to all.
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Comments

  • RodRod Posts: 2,067
    Hot Water Zone off a Steam Boiler.

    Hi Tony - Attached is a description of how it is done.

    - Rod
    pdf
    pdf
    CounterPointJun04-B.pdf
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Steam Heat/Baseboard

    Thanks Rod, have you done it before?
    · ·
  • RodRod Posts: 2,067
    HW Baseboard off Steam Boiler

    Hi Tony- Yes I have, but as a homeowner, I don't have much experience with this type of setup so don't I feel that I can help with specific recommendations if that is what you are asking.  What I have learned is that if you go above the basement level  it is probably better to use a a heat exchanger despite what they say is feasible in the pdf I attached.

    - Rod
    · ·
  • Long Beach EdLong Beach Ed Posts: 686Member
    All the time

    We do these all the time, but mostly to heat basements.  Just finished adding one to a Burnham IN4. 



    We've found that the bypass isn't necessary if you are using a gas boiler (with room below the base) and you drop both the supply and return pipes down at least a foot from the boiler tapping before turning horizontal.   



    The circulator goes on the supply side, of course.  We use bronze or stainless circulators.  They seem to hold up better.   And we only need one flo-check valve.  Maybe don't even need that.



    Put isolation valves on the loop so you can troubleshoot the system if it should suddenly start losing water.
    · ·
  • MikeyBMikeyB Posts: 692Member ✭✭
    Circ

    Ed, what brand of circulators do you prefer for this kind of install, Taco Bronze/stainless (wet rotor "00" series) or something like a B&G 100 Bronze? thanks
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Steam Heat/Baseboard

    Thanks Rod.

    Hey Ed, that's the same boiler I have, I will try to upload a picture in a few. Can you help me with this? I think I know where to connect the pump from, does the water coming back get connected to the steam heat water return Hartford loop? If you have some photos I would gladly appreciate it.



    Thanks,
    · ·
  • RodRod Posts: 2,067
    Condensate Heating

    Tony- Here is an article by Dan on condensate heating which might be of help.

    - Rod

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/330/Condensate-Hot-Water-Heating/76/Condensate-Hot-Water-Heating-FAQ
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    edited November 2011
    Steam Heat/ Baseboard

    Ed,



    Here is a picture of my boiler. Yes, it's just to heat the basement level.



    Thanks
    jpg
    jpg
    Burhman.jpg
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Steam Heat/ Baseboard Heat

    I believe this is where I will connect my circulating pump to, I will remove the plug and connect pump to this. The water return will go connected to the hartford loop?
    jpg
    jpg
    Circulator pump.jpg
    0B
    jpg
    jpg
    Return.jpg
    0B
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Steam Heat/ Baseboard

    Where would I put the isolation valves and the flo check valve at? Thanks a mill, I feel with your help my son will get heat in the basement this winter!
    · ·
  • Long Beach EdLong Beach Ed Posts: 686Member
    Hot Water Loop

    We connect the loop to the tappings provided for the Alliance hot water heater.   They are 1 - 1/4" and properly located for good circulation through the boiler.  If your boiler isn't new, it may be impossible to get the plugs out of these fittings and you may have to settle for a less ideal alternative. 



    Piping from the boiler to the pump ideally should not be less than 1".   After the pump you can reduce it to 3/4" or 1/2" as needed.



    I would avoid pumping into the Hartford loop to prevent blowing water up the equalizer or raising the level in the returns.   We have seen installations where this has been done, however, with no problems.  



    The rest of your questions are well covered in the article that's linked above. 



    The selection of pump depends on the flow needed for the heating loop.  Just avoid cast iron impellers as the condensate tends to cause problems with these. 



    Specifically, we've encountered several problems over the years with these. 



    When we used iron Series 100 circulators they seized over the summer months.   When we failed to drop down from the boiler, we got cavitation and hammering in the pipes.  When we failed to provide drain cocks on the loop we were unable to purge air and had pump problems. 



    Good luck with your project.  If you can't use the Alliance tappings, you may be in for a bit of trial and error. 
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Loop back connection

     " We connect the loop to the tappings provided for the Alliance hot water heater"

    Thanks Ed, I just have to figure out where my tappings are on my boiler?

    · ·
  • Long Beach EdLong Beach Ed Posts: 686Member
    Look

    Look in the Independence boiler's manual.  It shows all the tappings, and is available, of course, on Burnham's Web site.  
    · ·
  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Hot water loop

    Hi Ed,

    Would it be to much to ask for a pic of one of your installs with steam boiler to baseboard hook ups? I'm new to this and would like to get it done right the first time.



    Thanks, I would really appreciate it.
    · ·
  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Picture Water pump hook up to bottom of steam boiler

    Can someone help me with this? I am looking for a picture with a water circulating pump connected to a steam boiler for basement heat. If someone can post a pic of an install, I will gladly appreciate it. Just want to get a basic idea on the hook up.



    Thanks so much.  
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  • Mark NMark N Posts: 951Member ✭✭✭
    Hot water loop

    Go to gwgillplumbingandheating.com. Look under "hot water heating", then click on "Hot water system off a steam boiler". I have a hot water loop of my IN-4. The plumber that did mine used the taps on my boiler that are for the Alliance hot water heater. I used the heat exchanger also. The diagram that is on this web site is very good. Getting the plugs out of the boiler won't be easy. If your not completely sure on how to do this hire a pro.
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  • RodRod Posts: 2,067
    edited November 2011
    Pictures

    Tony- Here's a link to some discussion and pictures of an installation of Steamhead's that might be of help to you.

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/136109/baseboard-loop-off-steam-boiler

    - Rod
    · ·
  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Thanks

    Thanks Mark N and Rod. 

    The reason I am asking is I asked my boiler installer how I can do the basement connections of my baseboard to the boiler.  He said he left the connections on the tee with a plug on it for the circulating pump, he said the return gets connected to the water return tee where the drain valve is located. Look at the pictures I posted earlier, it shows both tees.  The boiler was installed 01/09/09.



    Any inputs are welcome.



    Thanks,

    · ·
  • Mark NMark N Posts: 951Member ✭✭✭
    Mud Leg

    Tony



    That tee on the boiler drain and the hartford loop tie into the mud leg of the boiler. You can't use the connection for your hot water loop. The water will short circuit through the mud leg and not pick up enough heat to heat your baseboard. Use the tapping that are in the boiler block for the Alliance. They have plugs in them now. The plugs need to be removed. There are knock outs in the boiler jacket for these tappings. You need to remove the jacket from the boiler. Go to www.usboiler.net and get the installation manual for the Independance. On pg.6 of the manual these tappings are labled M and N.
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  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Supply/Return

    Thanks Mark N, I downloaded the manuals. I would look into this, I just don't know why he is telling me to tap into the boiler drain when it will not work.

    How hard is it to remove these plugs, boiler is only a year old. Any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks again, now I am beginning to see this the way it should be done. Any tool tips on how to get the plugs out? I see the cut outs on the cabinet, just want to make sure I pop out the right ones.



    Thanks,
    · ·
  • Mark NMark N Posts: 951Member ✭✭✭
    Don't Know

    I don't know why he is telling you to do it that way. Maybe he doesn't know how to do it properly. As for the plugs, don't know I paid someone to do it. Also your boiler is nearly 3 years old, you state it was installed on 1/9/09. Have you read the article that Rod referred you to? The diagrams in that article are very good. As I said before if your not sure how to do this hire a pro that knows how to do it.
    · ·
  • TonyTony Posts: 15Member
    Supply/Return

    Sorry 2 years old, installed 01/09/10. I had marked it on the inside of the boiler cabinet. Anyone on this site work in Brooklyn area?
    · ·
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