Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
questions about multiple heating/cooling distribution units in one, new system
Options
davidd
Member Posts: 84
Hello,
I am making a change to my home heating system soon and am looking at different control systems. I have some questions about integrating the new system with pieces of the system from other manufacturers and would like some opinions on which devices/brands will be a good fit for this application.
1) I am replacing a Lennox CompleteHeat (combination boiler for domestic hot water and space heating through hydronic air coils in an adjacent air handler, HM30 150K BTU (input) heating unit, AM30 air handler) with a Buderus GB142-60 condensing modulating boiler. The hope is to re-use the existing air handler (Lennox AM30) for hydronic air space heating and air conditioning cooling.
(CompleteHeat information: <a href="http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/manuals/Lennox_HM30_Manual.pdf">http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/manuals/Lennox_HM30_Manual.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/HM30-AM30%20Series.pdf">http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/HM30-AM30%20Series.pdf</a>)
My understanding is that this may require the purchase of a Buderus EM10 module to which the 3rd party equipment will interface in order to control modulation of the boiler. Is this correct/current infromation?
(tekmar literature about Buderus integration: <a href="http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/media/literature/sb040.pdf">http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/media/literature/sb040.pdf</a>)
2) Is there a recommended way to integrate the 3rd party equipment into this type of system such that the hydronic coil pump can be controlled by the 3rd party system? I believe (but I'm not positive) that the Lennox AM30 unit turns on its pump when the thermostat sends its heat signal and then the AM30 unit monitors the fluid temperature going through the heat exchanger coil, only turning on the blower when temperature has been reached. My hope is that this means it can just be treated like any other zone in the system.
- I am assuming 3rd party equipment can turn on the pump for the hydronic coil when the thermostat calls for heat?
- One complication is that the hydronic air system has 3 air duct zones. Would the thermostats need to communicate with the existing air zone system and communicate with the 3rd party equipment or can the 3rd party system turn on the pump and control the zone motors?
3) I am interested in getting a 3rd party system with the ability to optimize the whole heating/cooling process through communication between the various pieces (outdoor reset, indoor feedback, zone synchronization, etc.) and easy management for the home owner, providing a web interface. I am unclear on all the pieces that are needed for my particular application. However, I'd really like to avoid wired sensors, thermostats and programmers when possible. I like some systems that I've seen, but they don't have wireless thermostats. Will these 3rd party system work properly if the thermostats are replaced with wireless devices from another vendor? If so, which pieces can be replaced and still allow the system to operate properly (outdoor reset, indoor feedback, zone synchronization, etc.)?
In particular, some of the literature talked about the thermostats communicating with each other, synchronizing their start time for the various zones. Is it truly the thermostats that are doing this, or is a common control unit deferring the thermostat requests, thus synchronizing them over time? This question relates to my question in (2) about whether the thermostats only talk to the 3rd party equipment or would need to talk to existing devices too. If they must still talk to the existing equipment, then the zone synchronization may not work properly (air zone valves open or close independent of deferred heating being supplied to the zones).
4) Will these systems allow me to have 3 temperatures for the boiler?
- Highest temperature for domestic hot water (with priority shut off of the other loops)
- Next highest temperature only when the hydronic air coil is needed
- Lowest temperature for radiant in floor heat loops (this would typically be the constant running temperature during the main heating months of the year)
5) I'd also like to tie in not only the single heating unit with multiple heat distribution technologies, but also 2 currently independent air conditioning systems. Is that possible with these systems?
6) What can these 3rd party systems provide for historical analysis of the system?
- Temperatures of rooms, pipe fluid temperature at various locations in the system, outside temperature?
- Boiler operating times, modulation level, when various zones called for heat, when outdoor reset adjusted boiler?
7) What is the best channel through which I would purchase 3rd party equipment? I already have an HVAC professional who will be doing the boiler installation and plumbing, but I'm trying to do as much of the rest of the work myself.
Here is more information about the proposed system, for reference.
Immediate system to be installed:
Lennox CompleteHeat (HM30 combination boiler paird with an AM30 air handler with hydronic coil) being replaced with Buderus GB142-60 condensing modulating boiler paired with a SuperStor SSU-60 indirect hot water heater, with the hope to reuse the AM30 air handler and hydronic air coil.
Closed loop of conditioned water that runs through the boiler, hydronic air coil indirect water heater and heat exchanger for radiant system.
Expanded system:
Next few months:
Closed loop of antifreeze mix for radiant system heated through stand alone heat exchanger from boiler loop.
Radiant system will initially have 2 zones (living room, dining room).
In the next 6 months:
Radiant system may have 2 more zones added (kitchen, hallway).
In the next 12 months:
Radiant system may have 3 more zones added (new 4 season porch floor, new upper deck (snow melt), new lower deck (snow melt)).
In the next 24 months:
Radiant system may have 2 more zones added (garage, shed).
If all radiant zones are added, that will total 9 radiant zones, indirect water heater and hydronic air (with air having 3 sub-zones). Radiant zones will most likely each have their own circulation pumps (rather than zone valves) and mixing valves.
Thanks for any help you can provide. I'm interested in all opinions, both technically and regarding brands and particular devices.
I am making a change to my home heating system soon and am looking at different control systems. I have some questions about integrating the new system with pieces of the system from other manufacturers and would like some opinions on which devices/brands will be a good fit for this application.
1) I am replacing a Lennox CompleteHeat (combination boiler for domestic hot water and space heating through hydronic air coils in an adjacent air handler, HM30 150K BTU (input) heating unit, AM30 air handler) with a Buderus GB142-60 condensing modulating boiler. The hope is to re-use the existing air handler (Lennox AM30) for hydronic air space heating and air conditioning cooling.
(CompleteHeat information: <a href="http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/manuals/Lennox_HM30_Manual.pdf">http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/manuals/Lennox_HM30_Manual.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/HM30-AM30%20Series.pdf">http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/HM30-AM30%20Series.pdf</a>)
My understanding is that this may require the purchase of a Buderus EM10 module to which the 3rd party equipment will interface in order to control modulation of the boiler. Is this correct/current infromation?
(tekmar literature about Buderus integration: <a href="http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/media/literature/sb040.pdf">http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/media/literature/sb040.pdf</a>)
2) Is there a recommended way to integrate the 3rd party equipment into this type of system such that the hydronic coil pump can be controlled by the 3rd party system? I believe (but I'm not positive) that the Lennox AM30 unit turns on its pump when the thermostat sends its heat signal and then the AM30 unit monitors the fluid temperature going through the heat exchanger coil, only turning on the blower when temperature has been reached. My hope is that this means it can just be treated like any other zone in the system.
- I am assuming 3rd party equipment can turn on the pump for the hydronic coil when the thermostat calls for heat?
- One complication is that the hydronic air system has 3 air duct zones. Would the thermostats need to communicate with the existing air zone system and communicate with the 3rd party equipment or can the 3rd party system turn on the pump and control the zone motors?
3) I am interested in getting a 3rd party system with the ability to optimize the whole heating/cooling process through communication between the various pieces (outdoor reset, indoor feedback, zone synchronization, etc.) and easy management for the home owner, providing a web interface. I am unclear on all the pieces that are needed for my particular application. However, I'd really like to avoid wired sensors, thermostats and programmers when possible. I like some systems that I've seen, but they don't have wireless thermostats. Will these 3rd party system work properly if the thermostats are replaced with wireless devices from another vendor? If so, which pieces can be replaced and still allow the system to operate properly (outdoor reset, indoor feedback, zone synchronization, etc.)?
In particular, some of the literature talked about the thermostats communicating with each other, synchronizing their start time for the various zones. Is it truly the thermostats that are doing this, or is a common control unit deferring the thermostat requests, thus synchronizing them over time? This question relates to my question in (2) about whether the thermostats only talk to the 3rd party equipment or would need to talk to existing devices too. If they must still talk to the existing equipment, then the zone synchronization may not work properly (air zone valves open or close independent of deferred heating being supplied to the zones).
4) Will these systems allow me to have 3 temperatures for the boiler?
- Highest temperature for domestic hot water (with priority shut off of the other loops)
- Next highest temperature only when the hydronic air coil is needed
- Lowest temperature for radiant in floor heat loops (this would typically be the constant running temperature during the main heating months of the year)
5) I'd also like to tie in not only the single heating unit with multiple heat distribution technologies, but also 2 currently independent air conditioning systems. Is that possible with these systems?
6) What can these 3rd party systems provide for historical analysis of the system?
- Temperatures of rooms, pipe fluid temperature at various locations in the system, outside temperature?
- Boiler operating times, modulation level, when various zones called for heat, when outdoor reset adjusted boiler?
7) What is the best channel through which I would purchase 3rd party equipment? I already have an HVAC professional who will be doing the boiler installation and plumbing, but I'm trying to do as much of the rest of the work myself.
Here is more information about the proposed system, for reference.
Immediate system to be installed:
Lennox CompleteHeat (HM30 combination boiler paird with an AM30 air handler with hydronic coil) being replaced with Buderus GB142-60 condensing modulating boiler paired with a SuperStor SSU-60 indirect hot water heater, with the hope to reuse the AM30 air handler and hydronic air coil.
Closed loop of conditioned water that runs through the boiler, hydronic air coil indirect water heater and heat exchanger for radiant system.
Expanded system:
Next few months:
Closed loop of antifreeze mix for radiant system heated through stand alone heat exchanger from boiler loop.
Radiant system will initially have 2 zones (living room, dining room).
In the next 6 months:
Radiant system may have 2 more zones added (kitchen, hallway).
In the next 12 months:
Radiant system may have 3 more zones added (new 4 season porch floor, new upper deck (snow melt), new lower deck (snow melt)).
In the next 24 months:
Radiant system may have 2 more zones added (garage, shed).
If all radiant zones are added, that will total 9 radiant zones, indirect water heater and hydronic air (with air having 3 sub-zones). Radiant zones will most likely each have their own circulation pumps (rather than zone valves) and mixing valves.
Thanks for any help you can provide. I'm interested in all opinions, both technically and regarding brands and particular devices.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 85.2K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.1K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 55 Biomass
- 424 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 73 Chimneys & Flues
- 1.9K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.2K Gas Heating
- 130 Geothermal
- 160 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.3K Oil Heating
- 61 Pipe Deterioration
- 884 Plumbing
- 5.9K Radiant Heating
- 376 Solar
- 14.7K Strictly Steam
- 3.2K Thermostats and Controls
- 59 Water Quality
- 49 Industry Classes
- 89 Job Opportunities
- 28 Recall Announcements