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Taco Air Scoop

elamcupelamcup Posts: 8Member
The 1/2" pipe is my make up water supply. The scoop is piped on the supply to the baseboard heaters, not the primary recirc line for the boiler. There are 2 circulators that run independently of each other. I have throttled back the flow by closing all of the baseboard inlet valves except for 1. I still don't get air from the vent. I get water only when I press the schrader valve. Maybe the scoop is plugged up with something.
Are spiro vents much better than the scoop?
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Comments

  • elamcupelamcup Posts: 8Member
    Do Taco Air Scoops Work?

    I have a ranch home with 2 zone hot water baseboard heat. The system has 2 supply headers and return headers. Each baseboard has a stop valve on the supply side and an air vent on the outlet elbow. There are automatic vents on the return header where they 90 down to the Taco circulators.I have a Taco Air Scoop with an automatic vent on it also.
    The problem is I cannot get all of the air out of the system. The auto vents on the return line pick up air. I don't get any air out of the auto vent on the Air Scoop. I tried lowering the system pressure thinking larger bubbles would collect in the scoop. That hasn't worked. I am beginning to think the only thing the scoop does is provide a place to mount the expansion tank.
    I open the baseboard inlet valves one at a time. I can hear to air run through and out of it. The Circulator makes the cavatating noise so I know the air is moving. However the auto vent on the Air Scoop doesn't pick up any air. What's up with that?
    The Boiler was replaced 2 years ago. I knew it would take time to work the air out of the system but this is crazy. I am looking for suggestions no how to get the remaining air out of the system.
    Thanks, Tom
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  • Supply House RickSupply House Rick Posts: 1,404Member
    They remove air only

    A Spirovent is a microbubble air separator which removes oxygen from the water not just air from the pipes. They cost more and they are worth it. Most Pro's will tell you they have eliminated "air" call backs by using they products. In this case you get what you pay for...
    Rick
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  • kevin coppingerkevin coppinger Posts: 2,124Member
    are there some....

    better pictures with the insulation off and some different angles? Looks to me as there might be some piping issues....kpc

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  • Maine KenMaine Ken Posts: 532Member


    If I understand correctly, you have a shut off valve at the inlet and a vent at the outlet. If that is the case and you have the valve closed, then no air or water can pass. If nothing passes then the air cannot get out of the vents.

    Pictures of you convectors would help.

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  • J.C.A.J.C.A. Posts: 2,981Member
    Time for a good read.

    May I suggest "Pumping Away" by our esteemed host? The pumps are in the wrong place and the vents are causing more problems than they'll ever solve. The feed is in the wrong place too. With such a great boiler, you'd think the installer would have read the directions.

    Trust me, Chris.
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  • jim lockardjim lockard Posts: 1,059Member
    as kevin

    said better photos with more details will help. At 1st blush looks like approach piping to Scoop could be better. But let us see details.
    Raising the water pressure not lowering it will put more air into solution. Best Wishes J.Lockard
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  • dann cristdann crist Posts: 37Member
    scoop

    If I remember correctly, air scoops require at least 18" of straight piping on the inlet side, hard to see in photo but it looks short to me. This sounds like a Monoflo system-increase pressure to almost 30 PSI, system pump off,
    bleed air from ALL locations and from now on PUMP AWAY.
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  • elamcupelamcup Posts: 8Member
    Thanks for the help

    Thanks for the replies. This was the first Ultra boiler the contractor ever installed. Some of the original system piping was reused. He was the lowest bid also (a friend of a friend) am I'm sure he did the best job that he could.
    I will pump up the pressure to 30 psig and bleed the system again. Hopefully that will push more air out.
    The Spiro vent looks like the real solution. I have about 8" of straight pipe going into the air scoop. The boiler is the 155 model and I think it has 1 1/4' pipe. What kind of requirements are there for installing the spiro vent? Do I need a specif water velocity, length of straight pipe at inlet, ect...
    Thanks again for your help,
    Tom
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  • dan holmesdan holmes Posts: 11Member


    The taco vent you have does not require any distance before it.It is the second generation taco vent it is the same design as the spiro vent. The instructions say that you should clean flux and dope from it after it runs for a period of time,your proublem may be that easy.The pressure should be higher to move the air to the schoop you want the bubbles to be small.Good luck.
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  • dan holmesdan holmes Posts: 11Member


    Took second look at picture not the second generation scoop.This one canot be cleaned. Try changing the brass vent to a taco 700 yours looks old. Whare does the half inch pipe on the top go?
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  • hrhr Posts: 6,106Member
    Might be fairly high velocity

    going through that scoop if the Ultra is piped PS as the manual shows with a high head circ.

    I'd rather see the purger on the secondary side where things are moving slower.

    Microbubble resorbers tend to work a bit better or quicker when piping distance is tight, but they also require the fluid to slow to operate 100% all air scoops act as a wide spot in the road :)

    They (micro bubble resorbers)catch smaller air bubbles due to the screen or mesh inside, than a basic scoop. Not sure they remove O2 however :) unless you are boiling the water in that system.

    hot rod

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  • Joe MattielloJoe Mattiello Posts: 94Member
    air problem may be from in line vents.

    The Taco Air scoop does require 18” of straight pipe before the scoop. You mention having inline vents….they may be causing the air problem. The fact that you have the pumps on the return side, pumping into the expansion tank, and you lowered the system pressure, you may have a negative pressure where the in line vents are drawing air into the system, as opposed to venting it out. This may explain the air problem. Attached is the instruction sheet for the air scoop.

    Joe Mattiello
    1160 Cranston Street
    Cranston, RI 02920
    Tel 401-942-8000 X 484
    Fax 401-942-2360
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  • bobbob Posts: 40Member
    eliminate return vents.

    my thoughts are the auto vents on the return lines above the boiler are sucking in air due to the higher head taco 011 pump and the 007's on the old return lines combining to create vacuum conditions at the air vents the air scoop vent is probably plugged with stuff from the install. eliminate the return auto vents by plugging them and treat yourself to a new vent on the air scoop. i am assuming the vents on the radiation are bleeder vents and not auto vents. if auto vents -plug them also.good luck.
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  • Anna CondaAnna Conda Posts: 122Member


    > The 1/2" pipe is my make up water supply. The

    > scoop is piped on the supply to the baseboard

    > heaters, not the primary recirc line for the

    > boiler. There are 2 circulators that run

    > independently of each other. I have throttled

    > back the flow by closing all of the baseboard

    > inlet valves except for 1. I still don't get air

    > from the vent. I get water only when I press the

    > schrader valve. Maybe the scoop is plugged up

    > with something. Are spiro vents much better

    > than the scoop?



    I can't quite tell from the picture.. Are your pumps on the supply side or the return side? Someone else brought this up earlier in the thread but it seems to have been overlooked... If the pumps are on the return side of the system (pumping into the boiler), it will cause all of the symptoms you describe, from sucking air in through the air vents to cavitating the pumps. If this is the case then the only way to really solve the problem is to relocate the pumps to the supply side of the system.
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  • Liberal LennyLiberal Lenny Posts: 33Member
    I like Air scoops

    The thing I like about air scoops that you can replace the can vent, quickly and for relative low cost.The Micro bubbler filters take a lot more to get up and running once they have been clogged, ever try to get a hold of the gaskets? I would like to see more pictures of the near boiler piping, the venting and the emittors, it looks like you have at least one common/shared return, you may be missing some bleeding points on the emitters, like coin valves. Too bad your buddy didn't upgrade some of that near boiler piping. Come to think of it a nice holiday gift for your friend could be found on the "Shop for Books and more" to the left of the Home pageon this web site. Post more pics, see what we can do for you.God Bless
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  • Uni RUni R Posts: 663Member
    Taco Soup

    Weil-Mclain is pretty emphatic, that for the space heating circuit, the circulator should be installed on the return side of an Ultra gas-fired boiler.
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  • Anna CondaAnna Conda Posts: 122Member


    Do you know what their rationale is for this? Every time I've seen such an installation, its caused exactly the problems this chap describes.
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  • Uni RUni R Posts: 663Member
    Ultra Piping

    I believe that it is because they want good pressure for the pressure sensing switch and for the HX. The boiler should be on a secondary circuit with the air elimination and expansion tank on the primary circuit piped so that it is pumping away.

    If installed in this manner I can't see how it would have problems. Interestingly enough, for the DHW circuit, they recommend pumping into the water heater instead of the boiler. I wonder if this is to avoid negative pressure in the tank-in-tank water heater designs?
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  • Anna CondaAnna Conda Posts: 122Member


    > The boiler should be on a secondary

    > circuit with the air elimination and expansion

    > tank on the primary circuit piped so that it is

    > pumping away.

    >

    > If installed in this manner I

    > can't see how it would have problems.


    And if not, I can see how it would have lots of problems *grin* Thanks for the clarification. Its a little tough to tell from the offered picture whether the primary circuit is indeed pumped correctly. The described symptoms still lead me to suspect that a boo-boo was made *lol*

    · ·
  • Uni RUni R Posts: 663Member
    I looked...

    I looked and I couldn't tell either, but I'm not a pro. I am always in awe as to how much more some of the people on the Wall can see when looking at a picture of a system. I swear sometimes they must have 3D monitors and be getting pictures with 10x the resolution of the ones that I'm observing.
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